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ipsilonv
5th October 2008, 11:27 PM
Sorry if I send the wrong message, all i will write is not meant in a disrespectfull manner.

Hey, I think your emulator is great, i've been using it for a while now. I don't think any other emulators compare to pj64.

That being said... I'm stuck with 1.6, which although great, has some problems that need to be fixed pretty badly. One of my questions is: Is the Public (Not beta people) going to seen anything any time soon. I know that it's done when it's done... but it's been riddiculously long since i've seen anything new in pj64.

I know you have lives, and need an incentive to keep working, and I don't want to be disrespectfull. But pj 64 is starting to feel like shareware, people who don't want to, or can't pay for the donation, get a product that is really old. I don't understand people who insult the creators because they don't get new releases, but in a way I understand where they are coming from. They are dumb for saying what they do, but the whole donation thing has been really annoying for the public, since it's been going on for so long.

I mean, for the sake of us who are not going to pay, you should state things how they are, so that we don't waste our, or your time. What i mean by this is that, If your not going to give us anything any time soon, meaning less than 6 months, then you should say so. Kill the project and then come up in a few years with pj 64 2. I just feel, and i think many others do, like we've waited for an extremely long time, and we just want to let pj64 rest in peace if it's gonna take a really long time for a new release.

((By the way, anyone who is going to say that if i want to see progress i should donate, just don't. If paying is a requirement to get the full experience, then this should be shareware. I feel like i haven't seen progress enough (For the Public) to make a donation. And no, i am not going to pay just because i've used this emulator for hours of play.. That's the whole point of freeware, and if i had to pay, I'd use mupen.))--> This is not against the creators, it's just against people who might say something like this.

As a final note, i want to restate that I know that you do this on your free time. I respect that, but you should tell us a very broad estimate of what we should expect. If the public won't see anything for a long time, meaning more than 6 months, you should say that, so that i don't check for updates. Like in the project "0 A.D" I know i won't see anything for a really long time, so i check, with luck, once a month.

Hope i didn't sound demanding or anything, i'm not trying to be. I just want some closure on the future of pj64 for us, the public (Not beta people).

Thank you very much for your work, Ipsilon Venturi.

PS:English is not my first language, so excuse me for any mistakes i made.

Smiff_
5th October 2008, 11:42 PM
we're just trying to work out the timeline at the moment - it will definitely be more than 6 months away because there has to be a long freeze after features are complete. normally we do make a rough estimate public - because things got stalled for a while this naturally has had to be extended.. i think originally 2008/2009 was expected (so it was already a long way from 1.6!), now we're looking at 2010 most likely.
i was originally hoping for a 1.6.x bugfix but that got put aside as it didn't seem worth it.. what exactly do you find "old" about 1.6 please?
PJ 2.0 is essentially what this will be.
we did always say it would be a long time and only donate if you want to see what's going on (or not going on) and to help us, not if you're just a gamer.. so i think we've been fairly straight about this. i do apologise for the longer than expected delays but that's life.. it's the same team and we've delivered in the past so that's what we have to go on.

mudlord
5th October 2008, 11:54 PM
Sorry if I send the wrong message, all i will write is not meant in a disrespectfull manner.

If you are going to lecture us, of course its disrespectful. No matter how you put it. :mad:



*mindless diatribe about PJ64 being shareware, sheesh*

Solution? Get it cracked so you can get it for free! Sheesh! but even then, beware that the versions out there are done by crackers that don't have a clue. zilmar knows what I talk about when I say that. ;)

Seriously, I hate people wanting everything for free. There ARE open source alternatives, use them if you want to be free! </sarcasm> This is one of the major reasons why I thought about quitting the scene. Its all this talk from people like you.

Thing to remember: if you public people don't like it, either:
A) Go get it somewhere else, and know you never get support and rest knowing that the cracker who did it can't even inline properly and just does everything via NOPs and JMPs. And so, they lack the brains to do a decent job.
B) Take a hike.

ipsilonv
6th October 2008, 12:19 AM
Thanks for the answer.

To Mudlord, I'm sory you are so sensitive to people's comments. And i love the fact that you refer to "people like me", And i couldn't care less if you work or not because of me. And no, i'm not giving a lecture, i'm making a request, because i don't want to check often if it's not gonna be done for ages. I was expecting more of an answer like the first one. Not someone crying about people commenting on the way they work. If you think i'm criticizing you, you need to get out of your house more. I've lost all respect for you, and i know you probably don't care, as i don't care what kind of person you think i am.

I like freeware, I like the idea of working for a community, and i wish i had a skill i could give out for free to people. But unfortunately, I have no skills with computers, so I can't provide cool stuff to people. And trust me, sometimes i really hate myself for not being able to give back to the community that provided me with so much. And if you are buthurt of working without getting paid, then don't, or make it shareware. Seriously, i don't care. My post was to see if i got into the community or not, but if you represent the community, i'm not going to bother, i'll download 1.7 from a torrent (I couldn't care less if it infects my pc or has problems, as long as it works better than 1.6.

Again, thanks for the answer, i hope not all the team is like mudlord. I'm sorry for liking freeware, and i had no problem with people donating to get 1.7, but i was hoping for the public to be able to enjoy it soon, legaly, and not from torrent. Sorry for betraying you by not donating even though i use your product, and for hurting your sensitive feelings.

Edit: Yeah, i know you stated that it would take long, i was just hoping it would be a shorter time, so that i could become part of the community. But 2 years is too long, i'm gonna be very happy when it comes out, even if i am dissapointed by mudlord's response to my thread.


wait, i just realized that i don't know if mudlord is a part of the team. Sorry if i got mixed up there. I know he does some stuff with a plugin that i can't think of right now, but i don't know if he works for pj64.

HatCat
6th October 2008, 12:30 AM
mudlord has been through a lot none of us know. It is worth noting as I could see immediately that you stand out from the rest who stand against the time that has been taken. You are probably the only one to reason at this level to my judgment.

I hope you understand the hope there is. It's entirely your option to pirate the beta versions, and you are not inclined to delay permanently for the loss of control that has happened to the development process. It was said in the registration page that the project would take a very long time, so it was specified to a relative extent.

I also want to note that the case is somewhat different with an emulator than most software. With video game emulation software is developed to fix certain issues in certain games maybe, and in many cases the public 1.6 version is better than the current beta version because of stability. You probably have access to the many games the beta version would make a difference, but with emulation the waiting for software has different motives.

mudlord
6th October 2008, 12:41 AM
And no, i'm not giving a lecture

Yes you are, you are whining over the fact that your favourite emulator is donationware. And you want everything for free. Seriously, grow the fuck up.

I've lost all respect for you, and i know you probably don't care, as i don't care what kind of person you think i am.

Correct. I do not care what some insignificant public person thinks.

i'll download 1.7 from a torrent (I couldn't care less if it infects my pc or has problems, as long as it works better than 1.6.

Typical warez kiddie thinking. Always trying something new even if it is rife with quality issues. Which we DO know about. Still, playing with cracked builds is playing with fire, and I highly suggest that these "crackers" go back to cracking school. You are making us decent one's look lame. :rolleyes: Make sure you's know at least how to unpack UPX manually and not by some lame public tool.

wait, i just realized that i don't know if mudlord is a part of the team. Sorry if i got mixed up there. I know he does some stuff with a plugin that i can't think of right now, but i don't know if he works for pj64.

I am NOT part of the PJ64 devel mob, only the beta test mob. So please, flame me like all you public brats do.

ipsilonv
6th October 2008, 01:02 AM
Ahaha, dude, do you realize how funny you sound right now? I have no feelings of anger or anything towards you, and you are trying to insult me. You are calling someone insignificant over the internet... do you realize how stupid it is to do so? You don't know me :S ahaha. Someday you'll realize what i mean... maybe not. And by the way, the way a wrote my posts was in a much more civilized manner than yours. Which goes to show you who is the one that needs to grow up. And again man, seriously, relax. And in none of my post was i whinning in any way. Again, i was requesting a response about when there would be something for the people who don't want to pay. Not wanting to pay is OK, as long as you don't do anything illegal.

I'm sory everyone for the first post though, now that i read it again, to some people it might sound harsh (I don't think so, but maybe something was lost in the translation.) And again, I really don't care if you never work again Mudlord, since you are not in the team. No offense, but i really don't, i've seen your stuff, and i don't care for it.

Also, as long as i get funny responses like the ones from mudlord i'll respond, otherwise this post will just fade away, and I'll be gone in no time.

As allways, thanks for your work.

Edit: To Iconoclast, I'm probably not gonna pirate project 64, i was going to if it was mudlord's. Since i don't do that kind of stuff to people i respect. Also, I really don't care what he's been through, it's none of my business. He should not answer the way he does, no matter what he does. ANd the way he writes shows how little respect he deserves from others. Disrespectfull people don't need to be treated respectfully just because of their work, their age or intelligence. Of course that's subjective, so the same rule could be applied to anyone that thinks that i was disrespectfull. Also, i know of many people that think the same way i do, most don't say anything because it's hard to put what we think into a post that won't aggriavate (sp) the people who made this. I really hope my post helped people who were in doubt, since it is very unclear what we can expect. Even if some people will not like what i said. I don't care what people on the internet think of me, since most people are not themselves on the internet. Before insulting someone get to know them, if you can't get to know them then ignore them.

And to mudlord again, the more i reread what you write the funnier it gets ahah. How is it wrong to want things for free? "Flame me like all you public brats do" ahaha us public brats?? Not wanting to pay for freeware is probably ok, if you think otherwise then you are weird (for lack of a better, not flaming word).

zilmar
6th October 2008, 01:39 AM
What i mean by this is that, If your not going to give us anything any time soon, meaning less than 6 months, then you should say so. Kill the project and then come up in a few years with pj 64 2.

It will not be any time soon .. at least a year maybe 2. When were working on the original versions 1.0-1.4. I was spending 40-50 hours a week working on pj64. In the holidays even more. Now I am lucky to get 5-8 hours a week to work on it.

A lot has been re-written and while a lot of those re-writes do not effect the user much a lot is structure work in the source so it can be improved. When it does come out for the public it will be 2.0 (it will eventually be public, we do not plan to keep it just for beta testers for ever). By the time it gets released the emulator will probably be 70-80% rewritten.

If the public won't see anything for a long time, meaning more than 6 months, you should say that, so that i don't check for updates.

if your happy to treat it as dead, that is fine .. if you want to know what we are doing I set up a RSS feed so people could still track what is going on. If we do not do it the manner it is in at the moment then the project is dead. When pay pal stopped us using them for payments the project basically stopped. I have been working on this project for like 10 hours, I do not want to give it up to I can say it is done.

That being said... I'm stuck with 1.6, which although great, has some problems that need to be fixed pretty badly.

In general 1.6 is really good, what do you see is the major problem that needs fixing badly ?

HatCat
6th October 2008, 01:51 AM
"mudlord has been through a lot none of us know."

Alright I would hate to digress from what zilmar's saying, but I just want to clarify I meant that in the fear of you thinking he represented this project. In a small sense we all do, but indeed I was set in letting you know not everyone would reply like him and that there's a chance of reason. He's on the edge of quitting the emulation scene because of people, but not everyone's like that.

We know the cost of wanting Project64 for free--which is perfectly fine--is time. Why does that bother you? If donation wasn't an option the pressure would be worse, not better

ipsilonv
6th October 2008, 02:13 AM
Thanks for the answer Zillmar, of course i'll have it on RSS. The thing is that first of all, it's nice to have a general idea of when it's coming out. But for me specially, and some other people i am sure are like me, I have a OCD-like behavior (Of Course it's not OCD, i just can't find a better way of putting it) where i check certain projects often, and this used to be one of them. And you get frustrated when there are few updates (again, I really understand why, and am not complaining in any way.) imagine checking often for two years.. that's what i'm trying to prevent for myself and anyone out there that checks on the project and is not really part of the community. But my question has been answered, I'm not expecting that it'll be done in two years, but at least i know it won't be three months or less. which although dissapointing in that it's a long time, at least i know what's going on. And yes, acting like pj64 is dead for the time being does help me, it's not a nice way of putting it, but it's as close to reallity as I (being a public supporter) will get.

It's complicated to explain, but it really does help to have this very broad idea of what to expect, so i really apprecieate the answers.

I can't pinpoint the problems that 1.6 has right now since i haven't played in a while. But from what i've heard from my friends 1.7 overall works better than 1.6. Plus, i've been to my friend's house, and he has 1.7, and when he changes plugins, he doesn't have to restart the rom, which is a huge plus. But i guess since you are re-writing 1.7 that means that improving 1.6 would mean going out of the way from the work on 1.7.

Is there anyway though, that an old version of 1.7 could be released to the public, even if it is unstable. I know that it would mean problems like people with the old 1.7 reporting fixed bugs, and stuff like that. But it would be great. It just seems like all this is killing the life of n64 emulation, which i hate to see. And we have been seeing for the last few years. I just hope that when you release 1.7, i can play so many games that it will have been worth it.

Zera
6th October 2008, 11:59 AM
Project 64 1.6 is already pretty good, in my experience. The only thing critical that needs fixing (from the titles I play) is the random freezes in Banjo-Tooie and speech in TWINE.

Other than that, use the Glide video plugin (which gets updated fairly often) with Jabo's audio and all major N64 titles will be emulated almost perfectly in 1.6. Plus you could always use 1964 for a few rooms P64 has problems with, it's not like P64 is the only emulator out there.

Oh, and make sure you download the lastest RDB here:

http://cid-27912d77b8396c7e.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public/RDB%20Updates

Smiff_
6th October 2008, 12:16 PM
RDB 1.6.019?
hmmm what's this.. latest on our site is .016, i need to find out what happened here. no changelog in that archive - ?

Zera
6th October 2008, 12:20 PM
I got that one in Squall's thread in the old forum. It's not an official release.

HatCat
6th October 2008, 10:14 PM
Perhaps in part by your leave Smiff squall began applying changes and fixes to the public RDB of his notice (meaning some of which may not be in the beta RDB versions). As briefed they're unofficial updates tracked over at EmuTalk until recently.

Ipsilon whatever your thoughts I believe in that compassion, but returning compassion for those struggling to wait for work is not on the top list of work virtues. There is some sadness in releasing a public version before removal of beta traces; the idea is to have everyone's efforts into a big release.

mudlord
7th October 2008, 07:02 AM
There is some sadness in releasing a public version before removal of beta traces; the idea is to have everyone's efforts into a big release.


Agreed. So, ipsilonv, its pointless releasing it now, there is still a fair bit of major bugs to fix. You just have to wait. I am sure zilmar, who is a professional dev (Jabo might have a dev job too), doesn't like releasing half finished cr*p. There is such thing as quality control, you know. :rolleyes: It would be suicide releasing the beta as is.

Smiff_
7th October 2008, 11:01 AM
Perhaps in part by your leave Smiff squall began applying changes and fixes to the public RDB of his notice (meaning some of which may not be in the beta RDB versions). As briefed they're unofficial updates tracked over at EmuTalk until recently.


yeah that's great but is there some changelog anywhere - otherwise its very difficult to use this.. i'll have to i'll do a diff on the files and work it out when i get time.

bluechair
7th October 2008, 06:19 PM
hehe quastion answered and problem solved.. happy ending..

squall_leonhart
7th October 2008, 06:41 PM
Yes you are, you are whining over the fact that your favourite emulator is donationware. And you want everything for free. Seriously, grow the fuck up.



Correct. I do not care what some insignificant public person thinks.



Typical warez kiddie thinking. Always trying something new even if it is rife with quality issues. Which we DO know about. Still, playing with cracked builds is playing with fire, and I highly suggest that these "crackers" go back to cracking school. You are making us decent one's look lame. :rolleyes: Make sure you's know at least how to unpack UPX manually and not by some lame public tool.



I am NOT part of the PJ64 devel mob, only the beta test mob. So please, flame me like all you public brats do.


Its not worth the issue mudlord, you know that :P just turn and walk away while cursing, swearing and muttering death threats under your breath, like any normal person xD

squall_leonhart
7th October 2008, 06:48 PM
yeah that's great but is there some changelog anywhere - otherwise its very difficult to use this.. i'll have to i'll do a diff on the files and work it out when i get time.



the thread on emutalk has the changelog starting from .17 i think. It was mostly adding some missing roms

pretty sure 0.19 was just an update for 40 Winks.


This is just an update to fix a couple known issues with some games, and add a couple of games that hadn't yet been Added.

1.6.018 Changes are
Changed Dark Rift LCB and CF
Fixed invalid Goodrom naming (all v's to V's)
Added Version numbers to several roms missing them.
Added Banjo Kazooie (U) (V1.1) and Turok 2 Seeds of Evil (U) (V1.1)

1.6.017 Changes are.
Fixed Mario Tennis U and J slowness.
Fixed Mario Tennis isn't stretched to window issue.
Added Missing Legend of Zelda (GC Bonus disk version).

theres quite probably a few more changes but i never documented them down at the time.


all the latest RDB updates will be available here
Skydrive - RDB Updates
Current version is
RDB 1.6.019

Note
if you have a rom that is missing from the list, please submit the name, along with the CRC and CRC2, and run it against GoodN64 for other information.

squall_leonhart
7th October 2008, 06:50 PM
Perhaps in part by your leave Smiff squall began applying changes and fixes to the public RDB of his notice (meaning some of which may not be in the beta RDB versions). As briefed they're unofficial updates tracked over at EmuTalk until recently.

Ipsilon whatever your thoughts I believe in that compassion, but returning compassion for those struggling to wait for work is not on the top list of work virtues. There is some sadness in releasing a public version before removal of beta traces; the idea is to have everyone's efforts into a big release.


Any changes i made to the 1.6 RDB, which benefited 1.6 (new additions, and speed fixes) i also migrated to my own personal 1.7 RDB, which Smiff has iirc.

zilmar
7th October 2008, 07:30 PM
yeah that's great but is there some changelog anywhere - otherwise its very difficult to use this.. i'll have to i'll do a diff on the files and work it out when i get time.

I use beyond compare as a compare tool .. really great tool.

squall_leonhart
7th October 2008, 07:50 PM
i use total commander, for almost everything these days.

Total commander + Tortoise SVN is super powered as a explorer replacement.