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magmarock64
26th April 2009, 07:18 PM
Hello there your not going to believe this, but I got refused service at a game store, quite literally for asking if there was a way to “legitimately play 360 games on a PC” When he asked why, I said because 360s are poorly built machines. With that he said poor choice of words, then hung up (more on that later). Similar encounters have led me to believe that emulators are somewhat controversial, and not everyone wants to here about them.
So to get a less biased (yes I know that’s debatable) response I’m asking you why you use emulators, as for me I’m a retro gamer which means new games piss me off especially ones with harsh DRM, and I like the idea of my old favorites being immortalized on PC. So what do you think about emulators?


Also please visit my “Please explain” thread I’m trying to become a more advance user :)

HatCat
26th April 2009, 07:39 PM
Since it was a service store one of the dealers probably worked with the hardware manufacturing and for that cause took offense, but those kinds of positions aren't necessarily familiar with emulators.

ya video game emulators are controversial

You know one thing I still don't get, is why emulators like Project64 are in public? Not that anyone cares. As of late various developers for other emulator projects are getting defensive against judgment. How can you serve to make people happy and defend yourself from judgment simultaneously? It's all hate to try to control what people think of you, and there's so much of the hateful centered around in what is done in vg emulation developers have been leaving and taking a hint.

Why should they have any respect, when it was their decision to prove arguing the physical righteousness to emulate what was so openly published to the consumer in further unbalancing the happiness from the creators of the games to the people who could already play them? They aren't that far from being deserved to be nagged; it's called karma people.

Still, a lot of them still want to please people, good for their cause. No matter what they do, quite a few people want to finish what they started, and in dealing with the users, I'll be happy to help that.
Then for the memories to joy, video game emulation serves a purpose. Scratch the legality; if you really want to make a legal emulator do something professional like emulate something not about games and entertainment; you won't raise heat over competition then. Be consistent.

Yes why don't you people try to emulate something that serves as an experiment to study the functions of the human mind? Rather than suffering in lack of conscious in that which isn't emulated

magmarock64
27th April 2009, 07:37 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.:confused:



Oh by the way it was a games retail store like EB Games.;)

CA5
27th April 2009, 11:36 AM
My reasons for using emulators are quite simple and not deep at all, unlike other things I do.

I simply can't be arsed to get my N64 out, I fear I might scratch it or something. With other emulators, such as GBA, it's cos I never really played many GBA games and missed the whole era. SNES/NES I really only play on my DS - I like the portability of it. If I ever use a DS emulator, it's usually experimental. For example, the first dump of GTA: Chinatown Wars didn't work on any flashcarts other than Acekard, but could be played on no$gba. We tried transferring the no$gba saves to flashcarts in the hope that they'd work, but they never did. So we then went on the patch the Arm7 with DSLazy, and I tried to patch both Arm7 & Arm9. Still didn't work.

Turns out I was closer than I thought, though. The first dump worked successfully on nearly every flashcart after an Arm9 patch was released - I just patched it in the wrong way (as in, replaced the Arm9 with another, incorrect one).

But yeah, I mainly use emulators out of laziness. Or sometimes, my Genesis / Master System crashes when played - so I use emulators as they never seem to fail me.

squall_leonhart
27th April 2009, 01:33 PM
There is no way a Current PC of any kind will have any chance at emulating the 360.

magmarock64
27th April 2009, 08:01 PM
There is no way a Current PC of any kind will have any chance at emulating the 360.

What I meant was, was Microsoft going to interrogate 360 games into windows 7, seems like the sort of thing they'd do.

As for no PC powerful enough to emulate the 360 that's not entirely true. There PCs that are that powerful, but very few people would be able to afford it.

What do you think about emulation Squall?

Mdkcheatz
27th April 2009, 08:44 PM
There is no way a Current PC of any kind will have any chance at emulating the 360.

Well yes, but then again, if you are skilled in understand the 360's hardware, there may be a chance to implement actual xbox hardware components along with a current pc if done right. down side: what's the point of doing that? :S

To emulate xbox 360 via software mod would be nearly impossible at this stage. Playstation 2 just about found itself working.

What I meant was, was Microsoft going to interrogate 360 games into windows 7, seems like the sort of thing they'd do.

As for no PC powerful enough to emulate the 360 that's not entirely true. There PCs that are that powerful, but very few people would be able to afford it. The 3D card alone would industrial grade and could cost up to $20.000 USD:eek:. I will see if I can a picture of one and post it on the forms just for fun.:D

I doubt MS will ever consider combining a PC and their xbox or equivalent EVER. That just has piracy written all over it :P

____

As for my opinion on emulation: I personally think emulation is brilliant. It allows you to store numerous games while saving a ton on physical space, also wear & tear. It is emulators that ultimately keep retro games alive as well.

Companies who benefit from consoles (Paypal, Gamestop, etc) from a sellers point of view, however , are the most likely candidates for rejecting the concept of emulators. Keep in mind that emulation causes big time piracy in the gaming industry. So there are substantial losses in both console and game sales due to people pirating.

My real argument is that emulators themselves are completely legal (unless they included a bios) and do not infringe on copyrights so therefore are technically just as respectable as tools that do not promote piracy. So it's almost more wrong to go after the emulator for blame on piracy and look further into rom sharing sources...

I'm not sure what the exact law is. I'm sure it varies dependant of location, but from the rumours I have seen online (same rumours from multiple sources) there is questioning in the legality of ripping your own roms providing that you own this game in its physical state. Rumour has it that you are allowed to "backup" one copy of a game, which from all the research I have done doesn't seem to violate any laws in general. But using an emulator to play the roms might in itself infringe on the user agreements... Keep in mind that either way, no matter what the law is, companies like Nintendo do not like people ripping roms or using an emulator to play them and will more likely than not try and make it seem to their favor and try and stop it to the best they can legally possible, what I am saying is that they will push this beyond what the laws are, so it's actually important to know your legalities that way you can avoid getting pushed around by Nintendo's numerous lawyer wizards who are likely to crush you no matter what.... (unless of course you think you can hire more just as brainy lawyers than Nintendo or competitor)

HatCat
28th April 2009, 12:21 AM
As for no PC powerful enough to emulate the 360 that's not entirely true. There PCs that are that powerful, but very few people would be able to afford it. The 3D card alone would industrial grade and could cost up to $20.000 USD:eek:.

nope
You know in the public scene, Xbox emulation is already dead, with less then ten games functional. Speed becomes an issue if one of those games has like, nonzero speed, due to major hardware differences. Technically it isn't even about speed, speed is just an observation due to it not being physically possible without ungiven hardware documentation and reverse engineering to accurately emulate it. Not only is it slow and inaccurate, it's incomplete and non-optimal.
Xbox 360 is out of the question.

So basically it's not about "power", and price from $20 grand to infinity in either direction also doesn't directly relate to the knowledge and reverse research required.

magmarock64
28th April 2009, 02:16 PM
I doubt MS will ever consider combining a PC and their xbox or equivalent EVER. That just has piracy written all over it :P

You know What else has piracy written all over it? allowing the use of external hard drives on your console.



Companies who benefit from consoles (Paypal, Gamestop, etc) from a sellers point of view, however , are the most likely candidates for rejecting the concept of emulators. Keep in mind that emulation causes big time piracy in the gaming industry. So there are substantial losses in both console and game sales due to people pirating.

Emulation piracy isn't that bad because it doesn't start until a console is about 10 years old, They are no longer making money from it, so whats the big deal?

I'm not sure what the exact law is. I'm sure it varies dependant of location, but from the rumours I have seen online (same rumours from multiple sources) there is questioning in the legality of ripping your own roms providing that you own this game in its physical state. Rumour has it that you are allowed to "backup" one copy of a game, which from all the research I have done doesn't seem to violate any laws in general. But using an emulator to play the roms might in itself infringe on the user agreements... Keep in mind that either way, no matter what the law is, companies like Nintendo do not like people ripping roms or using an emulator to play them and will more likely than not try and make it seem to their favor and try and stop it to the best they can legally possible, what I am saying is that they will push this beyond what the laws are, so it's actually important to know your legalities that way you can avoid getting pushed around by Nintendo's numerous lawyer wizards who are likely to crush you no matter what.... (unless of course you think you can hire more just as brainy lawyers than Nintendo or competitor)

Yes big companies like Nintendo don't like emulators, until they start making money for them I am of course referring to the wii virtual console.

nope
You know in the public scene, Xbox emulation is already dead, with less then ten games functional. Speed becomes an issue if one of those games has like, nonzero speed, due to major hardware differences. Technically it isn't even about speed, speed is just an observation due to it not being physically possible without ungiven hardware documentation and reverse engineering to accurately emulate it. Not only is it slow and inaccurate, it's incomplete and non-optimal.
Xbox 360 is out of the question.

Yes I'm with you I don't think MS will emulate the 360. My point is that I was refused service, and when I went in the store to talk things over (and believe me I was polite) I was threatened with security. This is how offensive emulators can be to certain people.


So basically it's not about "power", and price from $20 grand to infinity in either direction also doesn't directly relate to the knowledge and reverse research required.

Oops! I meant to say from $2.000 onwards man do I feel stupid:rolleyes:

Mdkcheatz
28th April 2009, 02:26 PM
Emulation piracy isn't that bad because it doesn't start until a console is about 10 years old, They are no longer making money from it, so whats the big deal?

Look at DS emulation and R4 devices :P

Nintnendo are still making tons of money from the Nintendo ds, and people are able to pirate roms either via emu or R4.... Also look at this, now Wii emu works (Dolphin) and and if that keeps up then who knows how long it'll take.

magmarock64
28th April 2009, 02:49 PM
Look at DS emulation and R4 devices :P

Nintnendo are still making tons of money from the Nintendo ds, and people are able to pirate roms either via emu or R4.... Also look at this, now Wii emu works (Dolphin) and and if that keeps up then who knows how long it'll take.

Oh yeah handhelds forgot about those. I can understand why people would want to emulate the DS it's got good games but its such a pain in the neck, quite literally.
I Tried to use dolphin and the text is wrong and speed is bad I doubt it's my computer any ideas?

CA5
28th April 2009, 05:44 PM
Look at DS emulation and R4 devices :P

Nintnendo are still making tons of money from the Nintendo ds, and people are able to pirate roms either via emu or R4.... Also look at this, now Wii emu works (Dolphin) and and if that keeps up then who knows how long it'll take.

Hm, a valid point. Flashcards do in fact aid the sales of Nintendo DS consoles. Many people simply go and buy a DS because the games are so easy to pirate. I know this as fact, as I know several people to have purchased the console for this reason.

However, for once, flashcard users don't just use them for piracy - a flashcard gives you plenty of additional features which could not be done on a standard Nintendo DS / Nintendo DS lite console, such as music playback, video playback, image viewing, PDF reading, text editing, etc. Accompanying this lot is also homebrew games, don't forget, which are as good as the real thing, usually better (http://bobsgame.com/). The Nintendo DSi has added features which were not previously implemented into it's predecessor's, such as music playback, an image viewer etc. However, plenty of things still are missing, like video playback, though there are DLC rumours floating around about this.

R4's were a bad example to use in this case, though. If you plan to buy a flashcard at any time, the R4 is not the one to go for, because there are no official firmware updates/fixes, and the company themselves died ages ago. It is STRONGLY reccomended that you look at either an M3 DS Real/M3 DSi, or CycloDS Evolution.

CA5
28th April 2009, 05:47 PM
Oh yeah handhelds forgot about those. I can understand why people would want to emulate the DS it's got good games but its such a pain in the neck, quite literally.

As I have previously said, most people who emulate DS do so for experimental reasons, such as the GTA: Chinatown Wars case. The emulators themselves aren't bad, but it would be way better to just go buy a DS Phat/lite, and grab a flashcard.

magmarock64
28th April 2009, 08:57 PM
As I have previously said, most people who emulate DS do so for experimental reasons, such as the GTA: Chinatown Wars case. The emulators themselves aren't bad, but it would be way better to just go buy a DS Phat/lite, and grab a flashcard.

Yes right you are. As you just pointed out, there are easier ways to pirate games on the DS I'm just saying that the risen I would use a DS emulator is to save my neck bones.

CA5
28th April 2009, 09:13 PM
Yes right you are. As you just pointed out, there are easier ways to pirate games on the DS I'm just saying that the risen I would use a DS emulator is to save my neck bones.

In what context, mate? It's not illegal to possess flashcarts. Nor is it illegal to run DS emulators, in case you didn't know. Did you mean the hassle? :)

magmarock64
28th April 2009, 09:59 PM
In what context, mate? It's not illegal to possess flashcarts. Nor is it illegal to run DS emulators, in case you didn't know. Did you mean the hassle? :)

Your talking about those things that let you download ROMS into a micro SD carda and use it in the DS right? But anyway yes hassle I can't get the DS emulator working properly on my computer thtere are some DS games that I think are quite clever like Metroid Prime Hunters for instance, which I own on an actual DS. But I,d rather use an emulator because using a DS is simply too painful.

omegadox
29th April 2009, 02:11 AM
I like emulation because you can add in your own features, it is not really corporation controlled. I like this one filter on VBA that makes the graphics look nice. Emulators are more flexible than the original hardware of course, and I like having all my games on one system :P. Also I like cheats and hacks, so emulators makes it easier to create cheats.

Topken
29th April 2009, 02:35 AM
and emulators add a lot more graphical options as well liuke take shaders with psx emulation and texture packs with n64 which makes the games look a whole lot better if you choose the right ones for the game or look different incase fo the storkbook shaders on psx. but thats one of the reason another is i dont have to buy more memory cars to keep all my saved games which is a very good thing. sence they dont make the older psx memory cards any more

CA5
29th April 2009, 03:54 PM
and emulators add a lot more graphical options as well liuke take shaders with psx emulation and texture packs with n64 which makes the games look a whole lot better if you choose the right ones for the game or look different incase fo the storkbook shaders on psx. but thats one of the reason another is i dont have to buy more memory cars to keep all my saved games which is a very good thing. sence they dont make the older psx memory cards any more

True, good point.

Your talking about those things that let you download ROMS into a micro SD carda and use it in the DS right? But anyway yes hassle I can't get the DS emulator working properly on my computer thtere are some DS games that I think are quite clever like Metroid Prime Hunters for instance, which I own on an actual DS. But I,d rather use an emulator because using a DS is simply too painful.

Aye, Metroid Prime Hunters gives me freakin' cramp. I was never really very good at the game, anyway, but the cramp didn't help me much on Wi-Fi.

omegadox
29th April 2009, 04:30 PM
True, good point.



Aye, Metroid Prime Hunters gives me freakin' cramp. I was never really very good at the game, anyway, but the cramp didn't help me much on Wi-Fi.

Yes, same here, it hurts my hand playing it.

Mdkcheatz
29th April 2009, 06:10 PM
R4's were a bad example to use in this case, though. If you plan to buy a flashcard at any time, the R4 is not the one to go for, because there are no official firmware updates/fixes, and the company themselves died ages ago. It is STRONGLY reccomended that you look at either an M3 DS Real/M3 DSi, or CycloDS Evolution.

Well I disagree in regards to the context of which the point I was implying (basically relative to concept rather than make of flash card). Seeing as the R4 is more well known, I used it as matter of arguements sake for reference purposes :)

But yes thank you for recommending a better brand of flashcard opposed to the R4, I would have myself but the Nintendo DS & DSi is not exactly my specialty in knowledge :P

CA5
29th April 2009, 07:03 PM
Well I disagree in regards to the context of which the point I was implying (basically relative to concept rather than make of flash card). Seeing as the R4 is more well known, I used it as matter of arguements sake for reference purposes :)

No, you're missing my point. Using R4 as an example of the flashcard concept is a bad example, because basically, it get's across the wrong ideas, especially given the fact that the card is now illegal in japan for piracy-related issues. You should do your research, in future, and perhaps use a better example :)

Mdkcheatz
29th April 2009, 08:04 PM
No, you're missing my point. Using R4 as an example of the flashcard concept is a bad example, because basically, it get's across the wrong ideas, especially given the fact that the card is now illegal in japan for piracy-related issues. You should do your research, in future, and perhaps use a better example :)

Well my point was mostly based on piracy related issues, so doesn't that make it the perfect example?

CA5
30th April 2009, 04:47 PM
Well my point was mostly based on piracy related issues, so doesn't that make it the perfect example?

Well not really;

Nintnendo are still making tons of money from the Nintendo ds...

Mdkcheatz
30th April 2009, 07:31 PM
I'm not following your point? They seem perfectly related to me :S

CA5
30th April 2009, 07:49 PM
I'm not following your point? They seem perfectly related to me :S

Game, set, match. Omaciao, Lynskey.