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Juanelote
4th October 2008, 04:00 PM
Cell-Shading feature
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Well, i was thinking if Jabo could do a Cell-shading feature in his plugin.
I know that it need shaders from DX9 and i know Jabo needs to port his actual DX8 code to DX9:(, i've heard that from a Mudlord's post. :(

A lot of people want that feature!! Mostly because there are texture packs like Djipi's ones that uses cell-shaded textures, Orkin did a great job with his beta plugin but only few people had access to it.
It require quite a lot of work, but if it is possible to Jabo. It would be AWESOME!

Rice's hi-res texture packs support
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How about supporting Rice's hi-res texture packs?!
There's so many hi-res texture projects in Rice's format! Supporting that plugin leads a lot of people use hi-res textures in their games.

BUT! I guess Jabo wants to make a new standard hi-res format, so maybe that's why he never included Rice's format as an option in the beginning.

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Anyway, those features are hard to be in, so i'm just here making suggestions :rolleyes:

mudlord
4th October 2008, 04:41 PM
How about supporting Rice's hi-res texture packs?!
There's so many hi-res texture projects in Rice's format! Supporting that plugin leads a lot of people use hi-res textures in their games.

BUT! I guess Jabo wants to make a new standard hi-res format, so maybe that's why he never included Rice's format as an option in the beginning.

Jabo and I discussed this at length, and at this stage, due to technical reasons as well as others, its a flat out "no"

HatCat
4th October 2008, 06:18 PM
Some authors of well-respected texture projects joined the beta development support team. Those members had their texture paks converted to Jabo's convention through a buggy tool of his.

Now that there's no retexturing forum I don't know what happens to retexturing at this point.

Smiff_
4th October 2008, 10:27 PM
Some authors of well-respected texture projects joined the beta development support team. Those members had their texture paks converted to Jabo's convention through a buggy tool of his.

Now that there's no retexturing forum I don't know what happens to retexturing at this point.


that is a good point.. we need to get retexturing work restarted. this was never really my area but it's something gent and others were doing good work on 2 years ago.
jabo is not going to support other formats for texture packs because he's now implemented his system his own way, basically its not possible.. perhaps he's done some more work on his tool though.. jabo are you around?

Unlucky_Owl
5th October 2008, 09:47 AM
Started using a few of the retexture packs on some of the files I have. Makes the games look great. My brother couldn't believe how much mario kart looks with the newer textures.

In beats the argument that graphics > gameplay.

Jabo
5th October 2008, 05:25 PM
that is a good point.. we need to get retexturing work restarted. this was never really my area but it's something gent and others were doing good work on 2 years ago.
jabo is not going to support other formats for texture packs because he's now implemented his system his own way, basically its not possible.. perhaps he's done some more work on his tool though.. jabo are you around?

I looked a while ago at supporting the CRC method that Rice worked into his plugin with the help of a few people who documented it, I'll actually have to make sure I still have that doc, damn this is embarassing isn't it...

At this stage it's a question of time, I talked it over with zilmar at length at one point, I think we both feel it's more important texture packs as a feature is implemented good rather than compatibility with other plugins. I'm kind of torn on the issue, but my focus will remain keeping the feature working well, compatibility may be a bonus but I'm not really at a point that I could commit to doing it I just have a lot going on these days and have to set priorities, I think this will likely slip for a while.

Actually even more that I think of it the less I want to support it, I really want people using DXT and not PNG, so this would almost be like a step back in some ways ... it's a bit like IA64 isn't it, technically superior but if no one uses it ... :P

And yes I'm around, the question is are you around! :eek:

HatCat
5th October 2008, 05:40 PM
I don't like the idea of plugins supporting other plugin texture formats. First they were designed for a specific plugin. Second Glide64, RiceVideo and Jabo's plugins are extremely different with texture loading performance and graphics emulation in their own positive ways.

It's probably safer to leave conversion to other conventions to the author of the retexture--being the one who designed it knowing what issues are with which plugins.

zilmar
5th October 2008, 06:16 PM
Let me just say when it comes to gfx I know a lot less then some of the users.

I think we both feel it's more important texture packs as a feature is implemented good rather than compatibility with other plugins. I'm kind of torn on the issue, but my focus will remain keeping the feature working well, compatibility may be a bonus but I'm not really at a point that I could commit to doing it I just have a lot going on these days and have to set priorities, I think this will likely slip for a while.

Making sure it is well implemented and works well is the top priority. Compatibility second, but I think if you can achieve both that is the best. Only when in compromise the work and you can work out a solution around that is the only time I see you should compromise on compatibility.

Actually even more that I think of it the less I want to support it, I really want people using DXT and not PNG, so this would almost be like a step back in some ways ... it's a bit like IA64 isn't it, technically superior but if no one uses it ... :P

these are my thought on compatibility with existing texture packs. This might have somethings here that are not possible.

Let me see if I have this correct at the moment when a texture loads you do something like this:
1. do a crc of the texture (maybe some other info)
2. Check in your texture cache to see if the texture is already loaded
2 a. if loaded then return the cached texture.
3. Check if you have a hi-res texture to load.
4. load the hi-res if found
5. load the original texture if no hi-res found.

to be compatible with the current other texture packs, you would need at step 5 to now to do additional crc using the method rice uses to see if you can find a texture in that format.

could it be possible that as you play you load the png. Then re-dumpo it to the dx forumat in your crc method. So the next time you need to re-load it you already have it now in your format. so if someone plays the game to the end it would be a 100% converted texture pack?

It would just add the overhead of the user having to check if the texture exists in two locations and that the HD space needed for the texture would increase.

Maybe do something like every so often if new textures created are there then spawn a thread (low priority) to create a new zip file with the textures unless the user has set a setting to keep in not in a solid state.

squall_leonhart
7th October 2008, 06:24 PM
what about DDS files? does the plugin support them?

HatCat
7th October 2008, 10:52 PM
Not automatically...

The generic DirectDraw surface compression algorithms still have the DDS file extension, but there is often some byte offset in the pixel mapping and exception messages to Jabo's plugin. If that had been the case I'd have released a fixed version of this (at least until Glide64 would support generic DDS).
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/scr/VirtualChess64UM3snap0015.jpg

squall_leonhart
8th October 2008, 12:13 AM
paint.net kicks ass for creating DDS textures.

mudlord
8th October 2008, 06:36 AM
The generic DirectDraw surface compression algorithms still have the DDS file extension, but there is often some byte offset in the pixel mapping and exception messages to Jabo's plugin. If that had been the case I'd have released a fixed version of this (at least until Glide64 would support generic DDS).

The DDS format uses S3TC texture compression. There is ways to load DDS files in OpenGL, because of this.

HatCat
9th October 2008, 12:24 AM
So I've read.

It's no deal to me really; chess is like the opposite of video games. Video games are psychology; chess only reflects what is on the mind. I highly doubt a PNG version I'd reupload by any chance would get a single download; I just don't like the idea of being subject to people like this (http://www.emutalk.net/showpost.php?p=391407) mirroring it--with or without my permission hah. (It's Virtual Chess not Virtua Wrestling...meatheaded really.)

Even if Glide64 supported it it's no deal--they supported something Jabo's plugin didn't (probably Glide64's new personal retexturing convention). I disregard whether Jabo implements DDS support outside DXT; I'd release a format no plugin supports. Any pirate who is obsessed with lame Photoshop would never figure it out how to easily convert it to PNG. And even if they did I congratulate respectfully; it's my fault and I'm happy my work means something to others enough to be pirated. I'll just remove the source download and watch the requests (not).