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ZeldaFanatic
16th July 2009, 04:13 PM
Im pretty sure this is legual......Is that true?

Truth Unknown
17th July 2009, 01:51 AM
Depends on what exactly.

Emulation Software and ROM Data Dumping Software/Hardware is legal in most places.

The mess is the legality of the copyrighted ROM data that was dumped. There is a good number of laws that can cover this topic, and its confusing. But one thing is clear, the sharing of copyrighted properties without the consent of the owner is illegal. This means via Web-sites, Web-storage (rapidshare, megaupload, etc), Peer to peer transfers (Limewire, Frostwire, Torrent Protocol, etc) and any other way to share data between people. Its illegal.

magmarock64
17th July 2009, 03:16 PM
Im pretty sure this is legual......Is that true?

Why do you care? You won't get in trouble and theses games are 12 years old and discontinued so it's not really stealing.

Truth Unknown
18th July 2009, 01:18 AM
Why do you care? You won't get in trouble and theses games are 12 years old and discontinued so it's not really stealing.

Old or not, its still stealing.

magmarock64
18th July 2009, 06:24 AM
Old or not, its still stealing.

The key word here is "discontinued" meaning that the game is no longer available for Eg GoldenEye, when you download GoldenEye who exactly are you stealing it from? The ownership of GoldenEye is divided amongst multiple companies.


Don't believe the lies of those bloody commercials that say internet piracy is equal to mugging someone or breaking onto there house. It's not even close, I think if the people who make these ads knew what they where talking about they'd tell the industry to get stuffed :mad:

CA5
18th July 2009, 11:30 AM
Theft removes original. Like, I got my pen nicked, I don't have it anymore. Piracy doesn't (in general) - whoever the companies are, they still have the games somewhere.

ZeldaFanatic
18th July 2009, 10:29 PM
Well, if I got games that I do not own from here:

xxxxxxxx

Is it legual?

HatCat
19th July 2009, 02:51 AM
If you remove the link in your post then to an extent.

Truth Unknown
20th July 2009, 03:59 AM
The key word here is "discontinued" meaning that the game is no longer available for Eg GoldenEye, when you download GoldenEye who exactly are you stealing it from? The ownership of GoldenEye is divided amongst multiple companies.


Don't believe the lies of those bloody commercials that say internet piracy is equal to mugging someone or breaking onto there house. It's not even close, I think if the people who make these ads knew what they where talking about they'd tell the industry to get stuffed :mad:

"Out of print!" not discontinued, its not a service but a product. Just because they do not make anymore copies of the game, it does not mean you are authorized to take copies.

I didn't even compare this to violence, just theft. Just because you didn't beat down a person to get a copy of ROM data, its still stealing. You are just ignoring the fact its wrong.

Theft removes original. Like, I got my pen nicked, I don't have it anymore. Piracy doesn't (in general) - whoever the companies are, they still have the games somewhere.

Someone takes your paid for DVD video and copies it, and the gives it back like its nothing. Now tell me that didn't seem wrong, not one bit, your hard earned money means nothing if you just let others just take a copy.

---

Just to put the topic to rest, taking a copy of a game without the owners consent (either by trade or permission) is wrong and illegal. There is no other way around it, even if you don't like it. There are many used and even a few new copies which are still around for the Nintendo 64. Plus, ROM Dumpers are legal, if not CD burners/recorders, cameras, audio recorders, etc shouldn't be on sale in a public store.

I know its wrong and illegal, and I have done it. But, I'm not excusing myself, nor I'm not going to do anything more about it. I just can't sit here seeing everyone else think nothing of it.

squall_leonhart
20th July 2009, 07:21 AM
seems fine to me. Entertainment should be free for all, the industry has held monopoly on it far too long.

magmarock64
20th July 2009, 07:26 PM
"Out of print!" not discontinued, its not a service but a product. Just because they do not make anymore copies of the game, it does not mean you are authorized to take copies.

I didn't even compare this to violence, just theft. Just because you didn't beat down a person to get a copy of ROM data, its still stealing. You are just ignoring the fact its wrong.



Someone takes your paid for DVD video and copies it, and the gives it back like its nothing. Now tell me that didn't seem wrong, not one bit, your hard earned money means nothing if you just let others just take a copy.

---

Just to put the topic to rest, taking a copy of a game without the owners consent (either by trade or permission) is wrong and illegal. There is no other way around it, even if you don't like it. There are many used and even a few new copies which are still around for the Nintendo 64. Plus, ROM Dumpers are legal, if not CD burners/recorders, cameras, audio recorders, etc shouldn't be on sale in a public store.

I know its wrong and illegal, and I have done it. But, I'm not excusing myself, nor I'm not going to do anything more about it. I just can't sit here seeing everyone else think nothing of it.

IT isn’t wrong that’s my point! Piracy is considered bad because by downloading a product apposed to buying it, costs the industry money on a potential sale. But if there’s no sale to begin with, where’s the theft?

Take Walt Disney for Eg they release one of there classic movies for
ONE YEAR EVERY DECADE they call this system the Disney Vault then complain when people pyrite there movies, but is it any wander!!

Here in Australia we pay double for games every time no matter the currency if that’s not bad enough, imported Games often won’t work, our TV’s are engineered to support NTSC but they still won’t work. It’s because of the regional lockout chip installed on every Nintendo product to prevent you getting a good bargain overseas. So who’s the real thief here!!.


Here’s something you should all read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout



This is what Half-Life director Gabe Newell said about Piracy
http://razetheworld.gameriot.com/forums/thread/gabe-newell-says-pirates-are-way-ahead-of-us


Some more about what Gabe said
http://www.pcworld.com/article/159805/dice_valves_newell_says_pirates_way_ahead_of_us.ht ml

HatCat
21st July 2009, 03:01 AM
The mess is the legality of the copyrighted ROM data that was dumped. There is a good number of laws that can cover this topic, and its confusing.
I aim not to oppose. I am interested in any details or where there are sources.

---

While I post in the wish for information I'll involve myself with a note.

Truth Unknown is describing with "illegal".
magmarock64 is describing with "not wrong".

In some cases, the terms "illegal" and "wrong" can be different.
Sometimes they are accurately summarized as the same.
Other times, "illegal" means, "not apt to do" / "can not be done" / syn. impossible.
But if we think of "illegal" as "against the law", "unlawful", depending on the environment (inclusively as what "the law" references), it can be different from "wrong" when two environments do not intertwine.

The true multi-context definitions set of even an old English term are exact, but our perceptions that enable us to bend their values are also important.

If I was to link to Nintendo's legal.jsp page again, you could closely see this method. As far as dumping games yourself, one question they ask is, "Are backup devices illegal," answering yes from based on function. Of course as suggested by Truth Unknown, I get to use my PC's function as a device to backup files.

What they don't actually direct to (not even ask on the FAQ)--as consistently as they do with other questions--is, "Is the copy I produce from the process of backing up my authentic game lawful?" On a separate note, what they do ask is, "Can I download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I already own the authentic game;" they just don't ask the former. When they mention backup copy exception they direct that a downloaded copy is unlawful but mention nothing of a backup.

boy I gotta take my pill and get to sleep :cool:

thefalz
21st July 2009, 03:28 PM
its all rubbish with copyright issues.

do you know, even if you own a cd you are allowed 1 digital backup only for your own use if the original is damaged, and if you put that digital backup on your ipod or laptop and listen to it if you are out of your home you are comitting a violation and it is against the law.

stealing, by definition is taking something in any form that would normally coast a price or fee. and getting it for free.

however "digital piracy " is a bit of a complicated issue and I believe its all up to personal opinions.

Limmo900
30th July 2009, 06:50 AM
Im pretty sure this is legual......Is that true?DEFINATLY LEGAL IVE BEEN PLAYING IT FOR AGES.:eek::eek:

zodac
9th August 2009, 05:18 AM
these companies i'm "stealing" from (but it's actually copied, they still have the disc) will make more monay than me in 1 day than my entire lifetime, how is that fair?

Truth Unknown
9th August 2009, 07:37 PM
these companies i'm "stealing" from (but it's actually copied, they still have the disc) will make more monay than me in 1 day than my entire lifetime, how is that fair?

It's their property (their time, resources and work) they can sell it anyway they want. It's the same as an artist selling full size prints and a baker selling cookies from his recipe. They are just not going to let anyone get away with their work. And its just not you taking these copies, more and more people are doing this, and it is taking a portion of their potential profits. I'm not going to debate how much is lost, but it is there and growing with every person that gets told its just a drop in a bucket. Hell it may very well make a reduction of game releases to the point of video games are not worth paying attention to anymore.

hhoopllaa
12th August 2009, 05:16 PM
you are not going to get caught if this is illegal because the chances of getting caught is 1 to 6,000,000 (rounded up)

magmarock64
12th August 2009, 09:53 PM
Nintendo care, we have to think of them and there share holders and the profits especially the profits!! For them. Because they are good, because they are Nintendo, and it doesn’t matter that they charge you more because you don’t live in the USA all that matters is them, and we should set an example and make them supreme rulers of the would. YES

VintageJawbone
13th August 2009, 10:28 PM
In the end, it comes down the age old question.

Is it officially abandonware?

magmarock64
14th August 2009, 01:50 AM
in the end, it comes down the age old question.

Is it officially abandonware?


yes it is!!!

hhoopllaa
16th August 2009, 01:51 AM
nintendo is to busy swimming in money to notice this little site so why should we worry

Truth Unknown
16th August 2009, 06:11 AM
In the end, it comes down the age old question.

Is it officially abandonware?

Abandonware means nothing to copyright law.

nintendo is to busy swimming in money to notice this little site so why should we worry

They don't care about this site since it covers an emulator, not their copyrighted properties. The closest thing they could call foul about would be patent infringement in the broadest sense, but even that would be frivolous.


People who bought a Nintendo 64 game can do almost whatever they want with that copy, but not a copy they got from elsewhere. One would have to dump a copy of their own.

VintageJawbone
17th August 2009, 02:35 AM
Yeah, you have a point. If companies really wanted to, they could hold onto everything forever, and even take it down with them.

hhoopllaa
17th August 2009, 10:30 PM
nintendo will not see this as legal but they wont see any roms too.they dont have time to search the web and sue random websites like doperroms.com or other websites

HatCat
19th August 2009, 02:05 AM
They don't care about this site since it covers an emulator, not their copyrighted properties. The closest thing they could call foul about would be patent infringement in the broadest sense, but even that would be frivolous.

Alright I have a second question.
To make an emulator we will need documentation on the target system and can use reverse engineering. An emulator, when measuring accuracy, I am perceiving in some case is similar to target system.

From these concepts I am wondering if an emulator itself does violate hardware copyrights?
I mean the games software is just plugged in. Everyone seems to worry over "We provide the console...not the games."

Companies hadn't begun to get upset over N64 emulators or piracy of their games until UltraHLE could trace them to one another. Only then did they start waging threats; before then they at least comparatively did not care.

So I'm not like questioning, is the reason Nintendo/Sony argue against other emulators the reason, just whether an emulator is really 100% legal. It still copies off the designs of another; otherwise it couldn't exist.

hhoopllaa
19th August 2009, 03:07 AM
you rswdlow you have the emmulator so why dont you delete it and go suck up to nintendo and say 'hay why dont you go sue these people"(wich to you will make sense) but then nintendo will say were to cheap and dont want to wast the money we swim in

HatCat
19th August 2009, 10:46 PM
Having the emulator doesn't copy anything; making it does.
In any case, if I'm included in some crime, just wanting to know.

Emmett
19th August 2009, 11:21 PM
I took contract law freshman year in college. Now I don't remember the details, but I still have the book if you want me to look it up for sure.

I do remember something about the Digital Millennium copyright act. I think that copy protection CAN be reverse engineered or "cracked" if it is used to preserve, not to steal. For example, say that Bob made a computer game that I bought. It has copy protection on it, and there is no way for me to back my game up. I can go to a completely legal site, such as gamecopyworld.com, and legally back my copy up. There is nothing illegal about this.

But if you want to know for sure, I can go get the textbook and quote from it if it will make you feel better.

Emmett
19th August 2009, 11:29 PM
NVM.

I just realized: The n64 system itself is not copyrighted: It's patented. Therefore, the work done by the project 64 team probably falls under patent law, NOT copyright law. Not for sure; just an educated hunch.

Now the names of Nintendo, N64, etc are a different story. We're looking at Trademarks there.

However, the functioning of the N64 would probably be patent based.

Also, most of the law I know is American based. If project 64 is hosted in Australia, then I'm clueless about what is legal or illegal.

Emmett
20th August 2009, 12:12 AM
From these concepts I am wondering if an emulator itself does violate hardware copyrights?


As far as I know, there is no such thing as a hardware copyright. There are Patents, and also Trade Secrets. Does the patent on the n64 carry over to a replica of it on the computer? Probably, but if Nintendo presses it, Project 64 will probably not be liable for damages. They would just get a cease and desist letter. Which means if you're a user of project 64, then Nintendo won't even care if you exist. If they won't go after project 64 for money, then they definitely won't go after individual users for money.

So in answer to your question; if you feel morally wrong for using Project 64, don't. The only way you should feel morally wrong is if Nintendo asked you to stop and you didn't.
If you feel legally wrong, then don't. You're not legally liable, and you will in no way be involved in a lawsuit with Nintendo as an end user of project64.

As to the abandonware issue:
Abandonware simply means that it IS still illegal, but for some reason the company that owns the copyrights won't push the issue. (example: the company doesn't want to pay the $$$ for a lawsuit.) There are rare forms of abandonware where it is NOT illegal, as is the following exception granted under the 2006 update to the DCMA:

"Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware as a condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published digital works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace. (A renewed exemption, first approved in 2003.)"

In other words, b/c Nintendo Roms are being sold on the Wii, there is no way they fall under this exemption.

Just an update for you all. I don't much care for wild accusations without any proof. It just makes people look silly. I'm no lawyer, and I'm probably wrong about some if this. But at least I provided sources for where I'm coming from. Also, I went ahead and read through the intellectual property section of my book. It's "West's Legal Environment of Business, Custom Edtition for WCOB 1012", written by Cross/Miller. A good briefing of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act, and exceptions can be found here: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

Hope this helps everybody.

hhoopllaa
20th August 2009, 12:23 AM
emmet emmet emmet you just dont get it do you. we want a straight awnser is it legal or not yes or no select one please

HatCat
20th August 2009, 12:28 AM
Thanks for these resources.
Of course, I just went off the idea that an emulator was copying something.

Patent then would make more sense.
As far as subtracting from legality, to apply here would be "copying the copyrighted".

To the other one, I wasn't intent on conspiring against any development or emulators and didn't question where the situation was "legal". I was only curious as to an idea where it might not be entirely legal.

As to it not being copyrighted, that is their design.

hhoopllaa
20th August 2009, 01:13 AM
what is the problem with awnsering stuff normal please say yes or no
:mad:

Emmett
20th August 2009, 04:23 AM
what is the problem with awnsering stuff normal please say yes or no
:mad:

The problem about answering stuff normal is that you only give us 50 minutes total since you asked the first time before getting angry. That, and trying to decipher your grammar, or lack thereof.

Long story short:
If you live in the US,
AND
You own:
1. An N64 system
2. The maximum number of controllers you would use
3. A physical copy of every rom/game you play using project 64
THEN yes you are "legal".

That's a very short and awful way of saying it, because 'technically' you're not legal. Just because US law says something does not mean that US courts have to follow that law. You will be hard pressed to find a court in the US that will convict someone who is simply playing a rom on the computer if they have already purchased the means to play it from Nintendo in the 'normal' way.

So there you go. However, be aware that if a court finds you guilty, it's not my fault.

And I am sorry if I rambled a bit on this thread in general. If I have bothered anyone, please accept my apologies for spamming it.

hhoopllaa
20th August 2009, 10:22 PM
thanks i am just going to take it as no but your not going to be caught

XFi6
21st August 2009, 02:53 AM
Someone takes your paid for DVD video and copies it, and the gives it back like its nothing. Now tell me that didn't seem wrong, not one bit, your hard earned money means nothing if you just let others just take a copy.You didn't pay for the movie. You paid for a pressed DVD and a license to play the DVD's content on a region-locked and approved DVD player. Isn't that what's (ethically) wrong, here?

Emmett
24th August 2009, 02:53 AM
You didn't pay for the movie. You paid for a pressed DVD and a license to play the DVD's content on a region-locked and approved DVD player. Isn't that what's (ethically) wrong, here?

LOL. Good jab good fellow, good jab.

squall_leonhart
24th August 2009, 03:28 AM
Thread and question sucks! bury it i say!!!

khonesty
15th September 2009, 03:15 PM
yeah but what happens when someone wants to release a n64 compilation on a future system, or even more games on the wii. You guys have already watered down the N64 scene. nobody will buy those compilations or downloads if you guys are playing them on the puter. Not really "abandonded".
If anything I think that's a little more illegal to charge money for this. You know you guys are making money off others hard work, I guarantee goldeneye took more time than any of you put into this. Yet you're riding those heels. Nobody would want this emulator if it wasn't for the copyrighted material!!!!!!Period.
I think half of you taking money for this are crooks (please beta test for me!!!). And the others that paid......please. I got mine for free where you guys log in to say that they're full of viruses. Works fine for me. If you want to "donate" give Tom Spiers $20 and get GameEx you won't regret it.
You guys are prima donnas for bitching everybody out when all they ask is when will it be released for free. Are all you MFers making money off this? Don't think so, I've never paid for an emulator and never will. unless you OWN an original on a cart or a disk or even your name on a copyright, it is illegal. I'm finished....... Block, and Ban.

khonesty
15th September 2009, 03:21 PM
I got mine for free where you guys log in to say that they're full of viruses. Works fine for me.

Before I get banned I forgot to add, Good Work. but it should be free...

Furgelnod
16th September 2009, 02:37 AM
The issue is one of copyright. The copyright on the games will not expire, in Australia and the US, for quite some time, some 50 or 70 years after their release. As far as I understand it is illegal to download or use roms where the copyright has not expired. As I understand some N64 games where released form public download.
But, it, does at least to me, seem ethical to use roms of games that you yourself own, particully as a lot o N64 hardware has became hard to procure or broken, as my orignal N64 is. Also, as mentioned above by others, if you download roms then your amoung many thousand of others who do the same.

Emmett
17th September 2009, 01:06 AM
The issue is one of copyright.
? Um....no. I'm afraid this is incorrect.
The copyright on the games will not expire, in Australia and the US, for quite some time, some 50 or 70 years after their release.
Also, it is not 70 years after the release in the US, but rather 70 years after the death of the author. But you were close!

doctorwho737
23rd September 2009, 07:01 AM
On this one guys it is hard to say.

It is like old Doctor Who magazines I have in a PC format to read on the computer. I could never afford to possibly collect these on my budget, and I'd really like to enjoy them. Plus, they are out of print so the only way I could buy these items is second hand at collector's prices, sometime paying triple what it was when first out (A few years ago I bought a used copy of Castlevania SOTN at sixty dollars because you could not fine it...the disc was a twenty dollar PSX Greatest Hit brand new back in the day..scary!)!

So I say as long as you are not ripping the current stuff off, and it would be a huge chore to physically get the items, it's OK... ;)

RchUncleSkeleton
26th September 2009, 08:12 AM
It really depends on what "Legual" actually means....as it's not even a real word! LMAO!

Nintendoblivion
13th March 2010, 05:24 PM
What would be the point of PJ64 then? It would be owning something pointless.

magmarock64
13th March 2010, 05:40 PM
:mad: Oh for FUCK SAKE not this again no one cares about the legal status of 12 year old game that haven't been in manufacture for yonks so please stop posting on this gay topic because I'm sick of seeing it.

magmarock64
13th March 2010, 05:42 PM
Oh look I'm now a Senior Member yay!
*blows party whistle*:D