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-   -   Hey, open the source code for 1.7... (http://forum.pj64-emu.com/showthread.php?t=3380)

Endafy 19th December 2012 02:43 PM

Hey, open the source code for 1.7...
 
This may have been asked a few times before, but I am going to ask it again anyway in a complete thought according to the guidelines.

1) It would be useful to the majority of users if I could look at the code and finish it for everyone involved. It removes the "control" from 1 developer to thousands, and I can make a much easier simpler UI, and port it to other platforms.

2) It would remove the difficulties from you, I understand how hard it is to code something. I do it for a living. It would be worth it for everyone involved.

3) I am sorry there is no reason to draw a picture of this, but I think #3 is a moot point anyway.

4) To be specific and non obvious, is that original open source developers get way more respect and admiration than closed source ones. You end up looking like a jerk who is only in it for the money. We understand people need to eat and are more willing to donate to open source projects more often than closed source ones. Furthermore, we are more willing to donate twice or 3x the amount to open source ones than closed source ones we may over look because we can't have the freedom to make it better. We can't look at it and say thank you for your contribution. We sit and ponder what would drive you to keep this all a secret.

5) I did research on this, and it seems to be very negatively received but I think this would be a great idea. It would garner reputation and quite a lot of respect from the community by and large.

6) I have thought about this for a long time now, far longer than a day. I have wanted to fix it forever now.

7) My idea is complete, GPLv3 would cover all of your bases and keep it alive and well, with your original code in tact forever. You would be set in a proverbial stone.

8) Of course you don't have to, this is of course, your baby. You own the patents to the code, and it is entirely up to you. I would love to be able to work on it, and further complete it. I would love to port it to every platform I can think of. I would love to go above and beyond, but this again is your project and open source n64 emulators exist, just they aren't quite as good because they didn't dump the n64 bios and decode it like you did.

Final thoughts:
The gamecube and wii emulators are open source, the work was done to dump and decode the bioses and they are the greatest emulators on the planet. Dolphin is by far the quickest, most feature complete, system-like emulator to date. It works with every wii and gc game without an issue short of unsupported hardware.

dazey238 19th December 2012 03:08 PM

Obviously it's a question for zilmar which yes has been asked several times.

Just out of interest though - do you have any experience of programming emulators? Specifically, for the N64?

I know you mentioned the existing open source N64 emulators out there, but 1964 1.2 for example is actually really good, and it has a Google Code page with a number of issues to be resolved.

Even Project64 1.6 is open source at the moment (albeit questionably).

Don't mean to be rude, I guess I just wonder why you and other people seem so focussed on the release of the PJ64 1.7 source when there are other N64 emulation projects out there which are pretty advanced and in need of skilled developers.

squall_leonhart 20th December 2012 01:56 PM

Quote:

1) It would be useful to the majority of users if I could look at the code and finish it for everyone involved. It removes the "control" from 1 developer to thousands, and I can make a much easier simpler UI, and port it to other platforms.
No it wouldn't.
Zilmar's code is written in a format he finds easy to read, which makes it painful for the rest of us.
The UI Is simple but powerful, we wouldn't want it any other way.

Quote:

2) It would remove the difficulties from you, I understand how hard it is to code something. I do it for a living. It would be worth it for everyone involved.
Why would this be a valid reason?, You clearly don't know Zilmar or the backstory of Project64 at all if you think this would sway him.

Quote:

3) I am sorry there is no reason to draw a picture of this, but I think #3 is a moot point anyway.
[insert random coolface gif]

Quote:

4) To be specific and non obvious, is that original open source developers get way more respect and admiration than closed source ones. You end up looking like a jerk who is only in it for the money. We understand people need to eat and are more willing to donate to open source projects more often than closed source ones. Furthermore, we are more willing to donate twice or 3x the amount to open source ones than closed source ones we may over look because we can't have the freedom to make it better. We can't look at it and say thank you for your contribution. We sit and ponder what would drive you to keep this all a secret.
Not the case at all. A lot of open source developers get laughed at and rediculed because of ridiculous development decisions - Refer to Mupen64minus.

Quote:

5) I did research on this, and it seems to be very negatively received but I think this would be a great idea. It would garner reputation and quite a lot of respect from the community by and large.
Project64 already has reputation of still being the best emulator to use, because it isn't gimped like mupen64minus, supports internal gamefixes via the rdb (unlike mupen64minus) and supports all known Common spec plugins (unlike mupen64minus and the latest 1964)

Quote:

6) I have thought about this for a long time now, far longer than a day. I have wanted to fix it forever now.
Go find some porn to watch

Quote:

7) My idea is complete, GPLv3 would cover all of your bases and keep it alive and well, with your original code in tact forever. You would be set in a proverbial stone.
GPL is an ongoing joke. Nobody wants to commit their code to a project that could be ripped off and sold by some random ass who manages to port it to a phone.

Quote:

8) Of course you don't have to, this is of course, your baby. You own the patents to the code, and it is entirely up to you. I would love to be able to work on it, and further complete it. I would love to port it to every platform I can think of. I would love to go above and beyond, but this again is your project and open source n64 emulators exist, just they aren't quite as good because they didn't dump the n64 bios and decode it like you did.
what bios? the n64 has a boot rom that is already emulated.

Quote:

The gamecube and wii emulators are open source, the work was done to dump and decode the bioses and they are the greatest emulators on the planet. Dolphin is by far the quickest, most feature complete, system-like emulator to date. It works with every wii and gc game without an issue short of unsupported hardware.
The developers of dolphin are a bunch of kids barely out of high school, The team has little communication between developers (apart from 1 or 2 wannabe's who think themselves better then the rest) and uses a lame design idealogy that if you are too lazy to fix it yourself, revert it and drop it from the project.

HatCat 21st December 2012 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
I would love to go above and beyond, but this again is your project and open source n64 emulators exist, just they aren't quite as good because they didn't dump the n64 bios and decode it like you did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by squall_leonhart (Post 42406)
the n64 bios has the same problems as the GBC and SNES where dumping the bios is concerned. it would require heavy hardware modifications to pull it off.

http://www.emutalk.net/threads/39962...l=1#post373275

[edit] also no Project64 doesn't support all the common plugin specs, zilmar still refuses to support his own Controller #1.1 :D mupen however does

Endafy 21st December 2012 03:32 AM

@squall_leonhart
Wow are you trolling me or do you really believe the rhetoric that you spouted. I don't want this to turn into an argument, but for the sake of going with what you said, I can take the source code I acquired quite easily through some seedier channels and simply do as you say without it being GPL already. The code is quite simple to find I assure you.

I have read his code it is very simple to read. It isn't well organized but I can read code so this is a non issue.

I don't watch porn and find it disgusting.

Dolphin plays almost every gamecube and wii game in existence, and took far less time getting there, and is far more stable than Project 64 was going back to say, the EOL for n64, and in fact I remember PJ64 being very crashy all the way through until the Wii's final release.

Your view of GPL is very flawed my friend, and I use the term loosely because I wouldn't be friends with someone who actually believed some of the childish things you have spouted off at me. You are not Zillmer, you didn't code it, I don't see your name anywhere in the files, so you have no voice to speak as you do, so sit down and shut up before you embarrass yourself. You have no code of yours in this project, so you sound like a trollish child.

I for one have coded and provided a LOT of open source code, I have been directly affiliated with the VooDoo *nix sound streamer and VooDoo kernel available for BSD, it has been ported to Android, Linux, and is being used in OSX upstream. Apple actually noted how good VooDoo sound system and is going to begin using it in future OS releases. You have no idea the honor. Being thick headed is no excuse for concern.

I mean if you had pointed any valid arguments, even tired old ones against open source I would respect you, but honestly everything you said is just a bunch of rhetoric trash. In fact everything you stated is wrong on all accounts, it would have been better if you didn't talk to me at all.

@lolXD
Thank you for pointing that out to me, that is one thing I was unaware of. I would love to add to this amazing project. I could bring it out of the dark ages of direct x 8 and update the graphics to OpenGL, I would break the ugly ties of MSVCP and recompile everything in GCC to make it more compatible with newer OSes, including Windows 8, I would code it to be 64 bit compatible. I would remove the XML hell that it looks like he has tangled into this mess and update it to JSON which is far more robust, and doesn't leave glue marks all over the damn place lol. Hell I don't understand why he didn't use YAML, why XML yuck. It is like he coded this entire project to be Windows compatible only without the hope of cross platform at all.

Could I accomplish most of this with plugins, well sure, hell I could take the parts I need and rip them out, and do all this with the code I have and nothing in the world would stop me. You try to sue me? Well I know some Nintendo heads who would LOVE to get their hands on your code. The point is I am simply saying, why not protect the variables with a license that is strict enough to protect it, GPLv3. The entire idea of an emulator breaks copyright laws left and right. I would be protected by the FSF, but you wouldn't should something arise and the laws sway ever so slightly against this sort of thing.

Lots of reasons to go GPL no reasons really not to other than a few trolls like squall who seem to actually believe the FSF wouldn't back something like this. Look all I am saying is let the community have a crack at it. Some open source projects do suck because morons write bad code. But there is a lot of great open source code. The very software running this website and forum is open source and GPL. Android is open source. Firefox is open source. Chromium (basically the ongoing beta version of google chrome) is open source. Libre Office, Gnome, KDE (which 99% of modern UIs copy), the entirety of Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Fedora all GPL. My very own VooDoo is GPL. Ogg Vorbis, Flac, VLC media player, FLV, your flat screen television, your cable box, your DVR, the kernel to OSX and iOS, python, ruby, google earth, picassa, Java (although java sucks), the list goes on and on of great GPL and Open Source projects. The US stock market for christs sake is GPL (they went GPL far before it crashed like years before) Almost every other country on earth and government office. Why not you too?

Or continue to live in the dark ages and when Linux DOES in fact take over the desktop, you will be left in the cold. Remember they said IBM was once too big to fall and where are they now? Barely making ends meet. Catering to markets nobody cares about.

squall_leonhart 21st December 2012 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolXD (Post 42415)
http://www.emutalk.net/threads/39962...l=1#post373275

[edit] also no Project64 doesn't support all the common plugin specs, zilmar still refuses to support his own Controller #1.1 :D mupen however does

/me facepalms

i knew that, it just totally slipped my mind

squall_leonhart 21st December 2012 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42419)
@squall_leonhart
Wow are you trolling me or do you really believe the rhetoric that you spouted. I don't want this to turn into an argument, but for the sake of going with what you said,

Yes, I troll deluded GPL Tards fairly often

Quote:

I can take the source code I acquired quite easily through some seedier channels and simply do as you say without it being GPL already. The code is quite simple to find I assure you.
You could, Then Zilmar could sue you into the ground for going against the custom license that protects the source from such thievery.

And you needed a seedy channel to obtain it? The 1.6 source code has been available on google code for months now, Its just had very little done with it because in comparison to the current code, it is archaic.

Quote:

I have read his code it is very simple to read. It isn't well organized but I can read code so this is a non issue.
Sure you can.

Quote:

I don't watch porn and find it disgusting.
I knew you had to be a woman. Your barely there logic seethed of it.

Quote:

Dolphin plays almost every gamecube and wii game in existence, and took far less time getting there, and is far more stable than Project 64 was going back to say, the EOL for n64, and in fact I remember PJ64 being very crashy all the way through until the Wii's final release.
No it doesn't. Keep believing that it does though, coz its fun to watch you fail.

Quote:

Your view of GPL is very flawed my friend
My view of GPL is realistic. Yours is delusional.


Quote:

And I use the term loosely because I wouldn't be friends with someone who actually believed some of the childish things you have spouted off at me.
I don't befriend self entitled twits like yourself who come to a projects forum and make a half baked attempt at fishing the source code from its developer.


Quote:

You are not Zillmer, you didn't code it.
Quote:

I don't see your name anywhere in the files, so you have no voice to speak as you do, so sit down and shut up before you embarrass yourself. You have no code of yours in this project, so you sound like a trollish child.
So a persons name has to be in/on a product for them to have contributed to it, eh?. There are alot of projects like this where people contribute heavily and prefer their name not be placed in credits or documentation.

Quote:

I for one have coded and provided a LOT of open source code, I have been directly affiliated with the VooDoo *nix sound streamer and VooDoo kernel available for BSD, it has been ported to Android, Linux, and is being used in OSX upstream. Apple actually noted how good VooDoo sound system and is going to begin using it in future OS releases. You have no idea the honor. Being thick headed is no excuse for concern.
That's nice. It doesn't make Linux any less shit on the desktop and hasn't won it any share in the gaming platforms.

Quote:

I mean if you had pointed any valid arguments, even tired old ones against open source I would respect you, but honestly everything you said is just a bunch of rhetoric trash. In fact everything you stated is wrong on all accounts, it would have been better if you didn't talk to me at all.
Who said i was against open source? Thats your interpretation. What i'm against is GPL and licenses like it that don't protect prior contributors to the project. Any developer with prior code deserves to be compensated should a form of their work be released for profit on an "app" store.

@lolXD
Quote:

Thank you for pointing that out to me, that is one thing I was unaware of. I would love to add to this amazing project. I could bring it out of the dark ages of direct x 8 and update the graphics to OpenGL
You could be doing that now you lazy clot. Glide64 has been begging for a native OpenGL port for some time. Not to mention you won't even have access to the Gfx plugin source since that belongs to Jabo, and he ain't letting go of it for nobody.


Quote:

I would break the ugly ties of MSVCP and recompile everything in GCC to make it more compatible with newer OSes, including Windows 8
ROTFLMAO. Just gtfo and write your own emulator then. Thats what you'll be effectively doing...... oh wait, you don't have a clue how to emulate the n64, so you just ignorantly assume having the code will make that a cake walk.



Quote:

I would code it to be 64 bit compatible.
No you wouldn't. You'd shit all over the code and leave a half arsed mess after giving up because you're too naive. Seriously, go back to linux and your praising apple and smoke some weed.


Quote:

The point is I am simply saying, why not protect the variables with a license that is strict enough to protect it, GPLv3. The entire idea of an emulator breaks copyright laws left and right. I would be protected by the FSF, but you wouldn't should something arise and the laws sway ever so slightly against this sort of thing.
GPLv3 is not protection.

This is protection.

/*
* Project 64 - A Nintendo 64 emulator.
*
* (c) Copyright 2001 zilmar (zilmar@emulation64.com) and
* Jabo (jabo@emulation64.com).
*
* pj64 homepage: www.pj64.net
*
* Permission to use, copy, modify and distribute Project64 in both binary and
* source form, for non-commercial purposes, is hereby granted without fee,
* providing that this license information and copyright notice appear with
* all copies and any derived work.
*
* This software is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied
* warranty. In no event shall the authors be held liable for any damages
* arising from the use of this software.
*
* Project64 is freeware for PERSONAL USE only. Commercial users should
* seek permission of the copyright holders first. Commercial use includes
* charging money for Project64 or software derived from Project64.
*
* The copyright holders request that bug fixes and improvements to the code
* should be forwarded to them so if they want them.
*
*/

Your precious retarded GPL does NOT protect shit. You're a deluded linux tard that needs to get out of the basement and take a look at the app store and get a good hard look at all the hard work WE emulator developers have put into our projects, only to have snotty little shits adapt the code to sell and profit off our backs.

Get on my ignore list with all the other deluded tampax chewers.

Quote:

[edit] also no Project64 doesn't support all the common plugin specs, zilmar still refuses to support his own Controller #1.1 :D mupen however does
There isn't even a plugin that utilises the 1.1 spec to prove mupen supports it. However since all mupen actually supports is some half baked SDL shit that doesn't even work on gamepads with more than 6 axis........

Endafy 21st December 2012 05:51 AM

So full of hate there mr squall. I feel bad that you have to live under that. I really do. Seems you offer nothing to any thread started by anyone. I did a search for your name and all you spout off is trash and hate at people. So I will be asking for this thread to be closed since you are so close minded. I feel bad for people like you I really do.

zilmar 21st December 2012 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
This may have been asked a few times before, but I am going to ask it again anyway in a complete thought according to the guidelines.

1) It would be useful to the majority of users if I could look at the code and finish it for everyone involved. It removes the "control" from 1 developer to thousands, and I can make a much easier simpler UI, and port it to other platforms.

I once thought like that, I thought I would release the source of pj64 and someone else could just take over it. That is why pj64 1.4 source was released.

When you have projects that a lot of people want to code and extend, shared foundation (browser, kernel, os, cms). Then Open source works well for people to come together to work together to code it.

Being open source does not mean someone will pick it up. There are a lot of dead open source projects. A project needs good dedicated codes and people driving/leading the development. This is needed open/closed for the project to work. Being open can help try to attract talent, but it does not guarantee it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
2) It would remove the difficulties from you, I understand how hard it is to code something. I do it for a living. It would be worth it for everyone involved.

After opening 1.4 source (granted there was not decent source control like git repository then, so not easy for people to submit changes). I really doubt it would make much difference. Maybe some small changes in the side, but I doubt there is any benefit to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
3) I am sorry there is no reason to draw a picture of this, but I think #3 is a moot point anyway.

No Idea what your talking about here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
4) To be specific and non obvious, is that original open source developers get way more respect and admiration than closed source ones. You end up looking like a jerk who is only in it for the money. We understand people need to eat and are more willing to donate to open source projects more often than closed source ones. Furthermore, we are more willing to donate twice or 3x the amount to open source ones than closed source ones we may over look because we can't have the freedom to make it better. We can't look at it and say thank you for your contribution. We sit and ponder what would drive you to keep this all a secret.

Maybe to some, but the majority does not care that much cause 99.99% of the people can not code so it does not make a difference to them if it is closed or open source as long as it works for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
5) I did research on this, and it seems to be very negatively received but I think this would be a great idea. It would garner reputation and quite a lot of respect from the community by and large.

6) I have thought about this for a long time now, far longer than a day. I have wanted to fix it forever now.

7) My idea is complete, GPLv3 would cover all of your bases and keep it alive and well, with your original code in tact forever. You would be set in a proverbial stone.

- no comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
8) Of course you don't have to, this is of course, your baby. You own the patents to the code, and it is entirely up to you. I would love to be able to work on it, and further complete it. I would love to port it to every platform I can think of. I would love to go above and beyond, but this again is your project and open source n64 emulators exist, just they aren't quite as good because they didn't dump the n64 bios and decode it like you did.

there is no n64 bios.

not sure about porting to non x86 systems, maybe it could be done. Tho that mac is now x86 maybe it is possible.

Jabo is the only one who has access to his graphics, audio and input plugin so I have no say in that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endafy (Post 42401)
Final thoughts:
The gamecube and wii emulators are open source, the work was done to dump and decode the bioses and they are the greatest emulators on the planet. Dolphin is by far the quickest, most feature complete, system-like emulator to date. It works with every wii and gc game without an issue short of unsupported hardware.

It is not a matter of if it is open or not, but the skill level of the people involved. As said before there is a lot of other open source n64 emulators, if it was just a matter of being open source then they should have long ago dominated the scene. Especially with me not necessarily focusing on pj64.

squall_leonhart 21st December 2012 08:33 AM

and fwiw

not even mame has the pokesnap camera triggered events, or body harvests geometric clipping, or Rogue squadrons long draw distance working. >.>, so large collections of developers don't mean a project will boom.


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