Game runs slower with sync game to audio.

[furryfangs]

Originally Posted by FatCat

Glide64 has been around for a long time...probably nearer the age of UltraHLE which did gfx in HLE since before Project64.

It's not immature or anything like that, just unorthodox.

When you do things in HLE, you just analyze the RSP code yourself and rewrite what the RSP does in the C language or whatever, and it statically compiles as x86 code for the PC rather than native RSP code.

It's neither accurate nor maintainable, however.
RSP code segments are tremendously huge, and if you misread or mistranslate anything you'll have a hell of a time isolating the bug.

It would be safer, more accurate and compatible, and less hazard-prone to just do it in LLE, where it's not statically pre-compiled.

Since the RSP can write to some of the special-purpose CPU registers, data memory read by the RDP, and the CPU's Rambus DRAM you could theoretically use the RSP to meddle with controller data or stuff in the other interfaces theoretically I guess...but generally in the commercial games the RSP is not used for such things, just gfx and audio.

so why are a few games running slightly faster then the set frame-rate is that a loop in the coding or just generally a bug due to the last few changes that were made?

[dsx_]

Originally Posted by Tasoulis

The numbers may be very close to the 60VL/s target, but the end result is noticeable video stuttering anyway, which can be just as annoying as audio pops in some games.

Also, not every game has audio pops despite what audio options you use, but with both those options enabled, every single game has stuttering frame rate. Its a "pick your poison" matter, but imo, default options should be with these two options disabled (or at least one of the two) because the stuttering video affects all games otherwise.

I guess newbies on N64 scene won't notice the stuttering video as much as audio pops if they haven't played the games before, so that makes some sense. Still, not a big deal, it doesn't matter what poison you chose, what matters is an updated RDB of CFG file with the correct options and recommended plugins for each game. So the majority of games can be as close to perfection as possible by default and the end user will only have to do minor corrections.

That's what i'm trying to do with my setup and roms, but its very time consuming, some games are easy to configure but many are marathons of trial and error.

oh wow, I thought the video stuttering was just my computer/drivers or something...so it's not just me! going fullscreen does eliminate the stuttering video for me though, with fixed audio timing and sync using audio both enabled, could you try that and see if the same happens for you?

[Tasoulis]

Originally Posted by dsx!

oh wow, I thought the video stuttering was just my computer/drivers or something...so it's not just me! going fullscreen does eliminate the stuttering video for me though, with fixed audio timing and sync using audio both enabled, could you try that and see if the same happens for you?

It happens in both windowed and full screen. But like i said, it might not be that noticeable, especially if you are not familiar with how the game runs normally. Try Super Mario 64 for instance, a game that, normally, has a very steady fps and its easy to make the comparison.

Uncheck fixed audio and sync using audio and use Azimer's plugin. Start the game and run around in circles with a steady speed and try to notice the frame rate. You will see that the game has a very stable 30fps speed with almost no stutters or pauses. Thats how it looks on the real N64. Then do the same thing again but this time check the two options and use the default sound plugin (azimer's doesn't like these two options). You will notice that the frame rate isn't as steady as before and its actually lower. Its still playable and smooth enough and if you didn't see the first test you probably wouldn't notice but after the comparison its pretty obvious.

This happens with every single game i tested do far. Which means that, by default, every game has more stuttering than normal. Some look worse than others, especially the ones that already had unsteady or low fps on the real console (because it adds up extra stuttering on top). I haven't found a way to fix this, the only thing you can do is uncheck one of these options. If both are checked, the frame rate will stutter no matter what other option you change or what plugin you use. And you can always see the unstable VI/s that the emulator reports.

[dsx_]

Originally Posted by Tasoulis

It happens in both windowed and full screen. But like i said, it might not be that noticeable, especially if you are not familiar with how the game runs normally. Try Super Mario 64 for instance, a game that, normally, has a very steady fps and its easy to make the comparison.

Uncheck fixed audio and sync using audio and use Azimer's plugin. Start the game and run around in circles with a steady speed and try to notice the frame rate. You will see that the game has a very stable 30fps speed with almost no stutters or pauses. Thats how it looks on the real N64. Then do the same thing again but this time check the two options and use the default sound plugin (azimer's doesn't like these two options). You will notice that the frame rate isn't as steady as before and its actually lower. Its still playable and smooth enough and if you didn't see the first test you probably wouldn't notice but after the comparison its pretty obvious.

This happens with every single game i tested do far. Which means that, by default, every game has more stuttering than normal. Some look worse than others, especially the ones that already had unsteady or low fps on the real console (because it adds up extra stuttering on top). I haven't found a way to fix this, the only thing you can do is uncheck one of these options. If both are checked, the frame rate will stutter no matter what other option you change or what plugin you use. And you can always see the unstable VI/s that the emulator reports.

hmm yeah you're right, still stutters

do you have goldeneye? because the stuttering with fixing audio timing in that is awful, but going fullscreen gets rid of it and restores a nice smooth 60fps (for me at least)

[Tasoulis]

Im not surprised if Goldeneye has this behavior. Unlike most N64 games, this one doesn't have a locked frame rate. Even on the real N64 you could reach 60fps at certain places if you faced a wall or something. And the faster the CPU is, the faster the game runs as if it was a PC game, that's why you can play it with smooth 60fps on an emulator that supports overclocking. I bet the same happens with Perfect Dark (also has unlocked fps).

But i will test those today when i find some time, to be sure.

[GPDP]

So all in all, for general use, it's recommended to turn off audio sync and fixed audio timing in conjunction with a sound plugin such as Azimer's or Shunyuan's?

[Tasoulis]

Originally Posted by GPDP

So all in all, for general use, it's recommended to turn off audio sync and fixed audio timing in conjunction with a sound plugin such as Azimer's or Shunyuan's?

That's what i'm doing. I use the latest Azimer's audio plugin (version 0.60) as default and Shunyuan's as my backup choice (can't go wrong with either of these two as default plugins) and audio sync / fixed audio timing disabled at all times. If problems continue to occur, i may enable one of these two options to see what happens but never both at the same time. And if that fails too, i play with other options like Vi refresh rate. Default is 2200 but some games work much better with 1500.

This way 90% of the games i configured run at steady 60 VI/s with no sound pops but a few of these games may have some slight audio delay (like The World Is Not enough). Which is more tolerable compared to pops or stuttering fps. I find Azimer's to be a bit better at this, that's why i use it as my first choice, but i always test both plugins to see which one is closer to perfection.

Some other games will still have audio or stuttering problems though, i cannot make Body Harvest to sound pop-less at smooth 60VI/s.

For other issues, or if a game is completely broken, i use PJ64 1.6/1.7 RDB as a reference and use the same options. This fixed a couple of games for me (A Bugs Life, for instance). All in all, 2.1 needs a good RDB/CFG update. If that happens, i believe it will be much better than 1.6 or 1.7.

[GPDP]

Originally Posted by Tasoulis

That's what i'm doing. I use the latest Azimer's audio plugin (version 0.60) as default and Shunyuan's as my backup choice (can't go wrong with either of these two as default plugins) and audio sync / fixed audio timing disabled at all times. If problems continue to occur, i may enable one of these two options to see what happens but never both at the same time. And if that fails too, i play with other options like Vi refresh rate. Default is 2200 but some games work much better with 1500.

This way 90% of the games i configured run at steady 60 VI/s with no sound pops but a few of these games may have some slight audio delay (like The World Is Not enough). Which is more tolerable compared to pops or stuttering fps. I find Azimer's to be a bit better at this, that's why i use it as my first choice, but i always test both plugins to see which one is closer to perfection.

Some other games will still have audio or stuttering problems though, i cannot make Body Harvest to sound pop-less at smooth 60VI/s.

For other issues, or if a game is completely broken, i use PJ64 1.6/1.7 RDB as a reference and use the same options. This fixed a couple of games for me (A Bugs Life, for instance). All in all, 2.1 needs a good RDB/CFG update. If that happens, i believe it will be much better than 1.6 or 1.7.

I see. Very interesting. It's a good thing we have people thoroughly testing these things. Hopefully all these findings will someday be implemented in a proper RDB update.