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Old 16th February 2010, 04:24 AM
Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks is offline
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Default CRT Output Emulation

Output on a CRT TV will look different from how playing on an LCD computer monitor will look. I believe that it is of historical benefit (since CRTs are becoming increasingly rare) to include the option of having the video output mimic what playing on a CRT would look like, a la Stella (an Atari 2600 emulator.
A Professor at GA Tech noticed that Stella fails to accurately emulate the look of a game and asked five of his students to tweak Stella to allow accurate video output as an option. (bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator.shtml)
If it would not be too difficult to implement I think it would be awesome to emulate the unique textures and whatnot because they would allow an emulator user to enjoy an experience as close to the original (i.e. N64 on 1990's TV) as possible.
Thanks guys, keep up the great work!
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Old 16th February 2010, 05:51 AM
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Fuck, no.

You want shit like that, stick to mame. Pj64 is about improving the experience not degrading it.
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Old 16th February 2010, 04:08 PM
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Ok, first of all arcade systems used a different raster display from what CRT TVs use, second of all it wouldn't degrade the experience since sometimes programmers rely on the specific way CRTs display to implement graphical techniques, and third of all, thank you for your articulate, constructive reply. Rinoa would be proud.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 12:22 AM
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You have to think that some people can consider that an improvement and not something that degrades the emulator and there are some valid reasons for that but before mentioning that this is something that is optional in other emulators and you can turn it off if you don't want it.

One of the reasons it is done in other emulators is simple, many of those older consoles were designed for tv and the graphics looked fairly good on tv even with the crude resolutions of the older machines because tv scan lines helped to smooth out the graphics a bit but when you look at emulators in modern LCD displays the pixels are so sharp that the low resolution graphics of those older machines becomes very apparent, way too apparent to some people's tastes including mine.

With scan lines and/or other CRT simulations like dot triads the graphics in many instances don't look so rough because things like scan lines (ideally adjustable in percent) sort of became an a crude antialiasing for those graphics. I usually like to switch scan lines on in emulators of older machines cause it makes the graphics look kinda smoother and I prefer them like that instead of the all too apparent jaggies that they have in modern PC screens specially when you enlarge them which aggravates the problem cause it make the jaggies of the pixels look huge.

So you may wonder what place does something like that has in an emulator of a machine like the 64 when it is a 3D machine and when you increase the resolution the graphics of the emulator they just look smoother, so what use does it has in it?

The answer is that because the Nintendo 64 was a very early 3D machine and its power was limited to what was available at the time in many games it had to compromise the 3D a bit in order to provide a better visual experience and a good example of what I'm talking about is the Mario 64 game itself from Nintendo cause you can see that in order for the game to have a more detailed 3D graphics look it actually had to use a lot of 2D tricks to simulate 3D objects and that is very well known and apparent in the trees and in many other objects.

This happened because this machine was sitting right in the middle of the still ongoing transition from 2D graphics toward 3D graphics, it was a transition machine and a 2D - 3D hybrid and proof of that were the many 2D games that were also available for it and the 2D-simulating-3D games that were also available for it.

This trick payed off for Nintendo cause it made the Mario 64 game have a much more detailed appearance that if it was attempted in full 3D cause then it would have cost too much of a performance penalty in the number polygons it would have used to create nice looking objects like that.

So even if in the emulator you can increase the resolution a lot and even give the graphics better antialiasing than what the machine had originally in 3D (I have a pretty high end system and I can do that and it looks very good) the problem is that the 2D parts of the scenes do not benefit one bit from this and when you increase the resolution the 3D graphics improve but the 2D ones just stay the same and they actually look worst because they become much more apparent and that kinda breaks the illusion that they were able to create originally.

It is for this same reason that I don't play the emulator in full screen in my HD monitor and I only use it at a slightly higher resolution than that of TV to prevent the 2D graphics of looking too jagged. What I do is that I give it pretty high antialiasing to make the 3D part of the graphics look better.

A scan line simulation or CRT simulation could help make the 2D graphics look actually better and not just for the 2D-3D hybrid games like Mario 64 but also for the 2D games and some people prefer it that way and it would be very nice if the emulator was capable of providing such a feature for those of us that do prefer it and for those that do not like it they could simply switch it off or never turn it on if the emulator defaults to no CRT simulation mode after install.

Last edited by PixelOz; 23rd May 2010 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:24 PM
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I don't quite understand.
Is this personal preference or is there an underlying issue with Jabo's Super 2xSai implementation?
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
A scan line simulation or CRT simulation could help make the 2D graphics look actually better and not just for the 2D-3D hybrid games like Mario 64 but also for the 2D games and some people prefer it that way and it would be very nice if the emulator was capable of providing such a feature for those of us that do prefer it and for those that do not like it they could simply switch it off or never turn it on if the emulator defaults to no CRT simulation mode after install.
Interlacing, not scanlines. get your terminology correct for starters.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadeonUser View Post
I don't quite understand.
Is this personal preference or is there an underlying issue with Jabo's Super 2xSai implementation?
Actually, a new filter has appeared which looks nicely on pseudo 3D and 2D, known as MLAA.
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Old 16th July 2010, 03:48 AM
Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks is offline
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Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart View Post
Interlacing, not scanlines. get your terminology correct for starters.
They are called scan lines, you idiot. Look it up. Google, Wikipedia, I don't care where.

"Interlacing" and "progressive scan" refer to the way those scan lines are displayed on the screen. Interlacing means each alternating field is written first, then the other fields are written in to complete the picture. Progressive scan means that each field is drawn sequentially (i.e. 480i is a definition that has 480 scan lines interlaced.)

Don't try to correct me because you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Next time you want to tell me my terminology is wrong, make sure you have it right. Oh, and GTFO.
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Old 16th July 2010, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PixelOz View Post

One of the reasons it is done in other emulators is simple, many of those older consoles ...
Woah, was that a comma? No offense, my mom is a big grammar person, kinda runs with me.

@ Fiddlesticks: I do believe that you know what you are talking about, but so does Squall, probably more so even. Don't be throwing the "I" bomb around at your seniors. (Not saying that I am one, but Squall sure is.)

From my limited "genius vocab.", I think this is about changing the graphics to the original 64 graphics. I agree with Squall. It would be like watching a T.V. Show that you haven't watched since age five, then watching it again at age fifteen, for nostalgia's sake, only to realize how badly it was made. Good story, but bad quality. Like the original Pokemon series for instance :P. If you get the nostalgia, and the awesome graphics of today, or in this case, a few years ago maybe, then that is all for the better.
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seriously. do it.

Last edited by Experiment #150; 16th July 2010 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 17th July 2010, 01:35 PM
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As Jabo uses D3D8 for his plugins, this feature/function/annoyance is not possible.
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