Zilmar refuses to adopt GLideN64 and he's extremely obtuse about why (here is why!)

[the_randomizer]

Glad you're going with Glide 64 and not that horribly broken Rice Video lol. That plugin messes up the HUD in a lot of Konami games.

[Frank74]

Originally Posted by SuperTurboTurkeyStuffer

Have you tried playing The World is Not Enough on Project 64 recently? Or Resident Evil 2? Or Tarzan? Or Rogue Squadron? Or Battle for Naboo? Or Indiana Jones? Or San Francisco Rush 2049? Because there audio is a stuttering mess. I do faintly recall this to be your fault somehow, but my memory is fuzzy. And there are other games with issues that mupen64plus doesn't have.

Yes, TWINE, RE2, Naboo, Indy, SFR2049 all have good audio here. And the camera issue was fixed recently for Naboo/Indy. I reverted PR 984 which fixes audio stuttering with Jabo, but my Azimer's build is good without reverting that commit.

Originally Posted by SuperTurboTurkeyStuffer

As I said earlier, have you tried playing RE2 on PJ64 recently?

Yes, it's pretty perfect with GLideN64 and Jabo with PR984 reverted or Azimer's new audio code.

Originally Posted by SuperTurboTurkeyStuffer

I can only think that you have a very, very slow CPU that can't handle the relatively unoptimized RSP interpreter. You're essentially saying the audio is bad because your PC isn't fast enough?

Nope, I sometimes use cxd4's static interpreter RSP in PJ64 without any noticeable bottleneck, for testing against PJ64's RSP. I've even suggested before to use cxd4's rsp as an interpreter option in PJ64, because it runs very well here, faster than PJ64's RSP Interpreter (via debugger).

I get static/click free audio in nearly every game with PJ64, including Body Harvest.

Gauntlet Legends still has problems.

[retroben]

Originally Posted by Frank74

-cxd4's rsp as an interpreter option in PJ64, because it runs very well here, faster than PJ64's RSP Interpreter (via debugger).

Really? Maybe I should check that out in hopes of better performance for now until hopefully that recompiler solution gets done for better ASM manipulation in real-time but without the freezes from accuracy so more glitch codes can be used and some even toggled for full enjoyment.

[Frank74]

Originally Posted by retroben

Really? Maybe I should check that out in hopes of better performance for now until hopefully that recompiler solution gets done for better ASM manipulation in real-time but without the freezes from accuracy so more glitch codes can be used and some even toggled for full enjoyment.

Here's my build with the config which can be opened from within PJ64 via configure RSP.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ds4v32pjb...20RSP.zip?dl=1

Answer 10 to first question for HLE GFX, LLE Audio. Or 00 for LLE GFX/Audio.
Run the config first. It doesn't use PJ64's Use HLE plugin options.

[RPGMaster]

Originally Posted by Frank74

Yes, TWINE, RE2, Naboo, Indy, SFR2049 all have good audio here. And the camera issue was fixed recently for Naboo/Indy. I reverted PR 984 which fixes audio stuttering with Jabo, but my Azimer's build is good without reverting that commit.

Gauntlet Legends still has problems.

How did you manage to get good audio for Musyx games? I've managed to do fine in some games, but Rogue Squadron, TWINE, and Gauntlet have given me trouble. I have high standards for audio, and it bugs me even if I hear one crackle every 5 minutes of gameplay (which is essentially the case for Rogue). So what are your settings for these games?

One thing I've noticed is that some games have very sensitive audio and what I mean is that performance has a significant impact. There are games (like Top Gear), where I need to run well above 100 VI/s in order to have acceptable audio. Yet I ironically get criticized for wanting better performance , on top of caring about users with worse hardware.

What problems do you have with Gauntlet?

Originally Posted by the_randomizer

Glad you're going with Glide 64 and not that horribly broken Rice Video lol. That plugin messes up the HUD in a lot of Konami games.

Thanks for bringing up Rice Video! That plugin would surely be the ideal plugin for supporting 15 year old hardware . Maybe that should be the default . I'm excited because that would mean PJ64 will have better performance by default!

On a serious note, Ishiiruka (which is far superior to regular Dolphin) support D3D9 and so does PCSX2. Based on the few games I've tested, the experience was acceptable imo. I'm sure they could improve the accuracy further if they had dedicated D3D9 programmers. It's not like using a fairly old API would be absolutely terrible. If there's a dev willing to go out of their way to make sure more users are able to use their software, God bless them.

I think it's silly that people are attacking zilmar for trying to do the right thing. The attacks/negativity hinder progress far more than the act of not catering to end users with high-end hardware. CEN64 is even more accuracy focused and yet is at least runnable on low-end hardware (SSE2 came out in 2001). This allows developers with low-end hardware to contribute and use.

If it were up to me, I think D3D9, Windows XP, and (maybe) SSE2 would be my cutoff. If I were to focus more on LLE, SSE2 for sure and then 64-bit would probably be another cutoff.

[Frank74]

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

How did you manage to get good audio for Musyx games? I've managed to do fine in some games, but Rogue Squadron, TWINE, and Gauntlet have given me trouble. I have high standards for audio, and it bugs me even if I hear one crackle every 5 minutes of gameplay (which is essentially the case for Rogue). So what are your settings for these games.

TWINE/RE2 are perfect audio with this:
Plugins:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9l6s8tksty...ugins.zip?dl=1
Threaded option needs to be turned on before starting the game. All default options.

Audio settings default, except AudioThread Sleep on:


Edit:
Gauntlet needs a bigger buffer. It crackles with these settings. But is fine if I set buffer/backend FPS to 30. The lower the FPS buffer setting, the bigger the buffer. Though big buffer causes frame limiter to lock to 50 VI/s when you go below the FPS of the game.
Buffer settings don't take effect until you restart or load a save state.

[the_randomizer]

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

How did you manage to get good audio for Musyx games? I've managed to do fine in some games, but Rogue Squadron, TWINE, and Gauntlet have given me trouble. I have high standards for audio, and it bugs me even if I hear one crackle every 5 minutes of gameplay (which is essentially the case for Rogue). So what are your settings for these games?

One thing I've noticed is that some games have very sensitive audio and what I mean is that performance has a significant impact. There are games (like Top Gear), where I need to run well above 100 VI/s in order to have acceptable audio. Yet I ironically get criticized for wanting better performance , on top of caring about users with worse hardware.

What problems do you have with Gauntlet?
Thanks for bringing up Rice Video! That plugin would surely be the ideal plugin for supporting 15 year old hardware . Maybe that should be the default . I'm excited because that would mean PJ64 will have better performance by default!

On a serious note, Ishiiruka (which is far superior to regular Dolphin) support D3D9 and so does PCSX2. Based on the few games I've tested, the experience was acceptable imo. I'm sure they could improve the accuracy further if they had dedicated D3D9 programmers. It's not like using a fairly old API would be absolutely terrible. If there's a dev willing to go out of their way to make sure more users are able to use their software, God bless them.

I think it's silly that people are attacking zilmar for trying to do the right thing. The attacks/negativity hinder progress far more than the act of not catering to end users with high-end hardware. CEN64 is even more accuracy focused and yet is at least runnable on low-end hardware (SSE2 came out in 2001). This allows developers with low-end hardware to contribute and use.

If it were up to me, I think D3D9, Windows XP, and (maybe) SSE2 would be my cutoff. If I were to focus more on LLE, SSE2 for sure and then 64-bit would probably be another cutoff.

Was I attacking Zilmar? No, I wasn't, I hope you weren't accusing me. I was serious because out of the two plugins, Glide 64 made more sense. Jabo's plugin is just...ugh. I'm nitpicky about emulation accuracy, Jabo can't even emulate the alpha dithering effects many first and a few third party game used. Even the Wii U emulates the effect perfectly, but Jabo, heh it doesn't. Glide 64 isn't bad, and that's fine, but I personally use GlideN64 because it's just what I use *shrug*

[RPGMaster]

Thanks Frank, I guess my issue with Gauntlet wasn't as bad as I remember, although the build you sent works great for it. It just worked, without me having to tweak any settings. TWINE needed the disable audiothread sleep, for the voices to work properly. I never thought doing so would make that much of a difference. That's a shame since it hogs performance.

Btw is that plugin XA2 or DS8? And I should have asked what settings work best in Top Gear.. Would like to see if it's even better than ever now.

I don't use really Jabo's anymore (haven't in a long time), so I'm wondering if Azimer's has surpassed it yet. WHat games does Jabo's work better with than Azimers? What known issues are there with Azimer's Audio?

Originally Posted by the_randomizer

Was I attacking Zilmar? No, I wasn't, I hope you weren't accusing me. I was serious because out of the two plugins, Glide 64 made more sense. Jabo's plugin is just...ugh. I'm nitpicky about emulation accuracy, Jabo can't even emulate the alpha dithering effects many first and a few third party game used. Even the Wii U emulates the effect perfectly, but Jabo, heh it doesn't. Glide 64 isn't bad, and that's fine, but I personally use GlideN64 because it's just what I use *shrug*

Nah, i wasn't referring to you. You're honestly better than most of these posters I see on other sites. Your post just happened to highlight a misconception I've been seeing across the web. Some geniuses came to the brilliant conclusion that zilmar is catering to "ancient" hardware. If he really did cater to 15 year old hardware or w/e nonsense number these people pulled out of a hat, he would have made Rice Video the default plugin..

Although if zilmar really did make Rice Video the default and planned to greatly improve it, I would strongly consider donating to him .

[Frank74]

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

Btw is that plugin XA2 or DS8? And I should have asked what settings work best in Top Gear.. Would like to see if it's even better than ever now.

I don't use really Jabo's anymore (haven't in a long time), so I'm wondering if Azimer's has surpassed it yet. WHat games does Jabo's work better with than Azimers? What known issues are there with Azimer's Audio?

It's XA2 New Audio code, not legacy.

I've just noticed static start in Top Gear Rally after a few minutes with default settings though. There's still a timing problem with that game. FPS at 95 and only 2 buffers seem better. So smaller buffer. It's been playing in the background with those settings for ten minutes without any static.

Azimer's has surpassed Jabo's since the new audio code earlier this year. It's very low latency with default settings. And doesn't drift out of time anymore.
Once the new tabbed config is working, to select backends (dx/xa2/legacy), playback device, buffer settings, output frequency, thread yielding etc. it should replace Jabo I hope.

I suppose any game that struggles bad with VI/s are better with Jabo's audio. Jabo uses a big buffer with high latency by default. And it deals with gaps a bit better, so you don't hear any "static", just silence.

[SuperTurboTurkeyStuffer]

Originally Posted by Frank74

Yes, TWINE, RE2, Naboo, Indy, SFR2049 all have good audio here. And the camera issue was fixed recently for Naboo/Indy. I reverted PR 984 which fixes audio stuttering with Jabo, but my Azimer's build is good without reverting that commit.

That's not a solution. Everyone knows they work fine with Azimer's. Everyone knows you have to revert the PR to "fix" them with Jabo's. I'm talking about this very moment in time. When Jane Doe or John Smith downloads Project 64 and wants to play Rogue Squadron.

The audio is screwed. They need this fixed. They don't need to be told to revert a pull request or download and tune a different audio plugin. That is absolutely ludicrous. Sometimes the lack of consideration for the end users blows my mind a tiny bit.

It's like saying, "Na, PJ64 doesn't have comprehensively broken graphics emulation because you can just download GLideN64 to fix that. Why didn't we include it? Oh, we were scared of people with really, really, really, really old hardware who prefer everyone have broken emulation than for people with really, really, really old hardware to have to select a legacy plugin from the options menu."

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

I think it's silly that people are attacking zilmar for trying to do the right thing. The attacks/negativity hinder progress far more than the act of not catering to end users with high-end hardware.

"High-end hardware." By 2017, GLideN64 requires low-end hardware. There is "low end", and then there is "stop dreaming that this will ever emulate the N64 correctly".

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

CEN64 is even more accuracy focused and yet is at least runnable on low-end hardware (SSE2 came out in 2001). This allows developers with low-end hardware to contribute and use.

Cen64 has a software renderer. (Angrylion's.) It should be very obvious why Cen64 quote unquote "runs" on a CPU from 2001 while GLideN64 does not run on a GPU from 2001. You do understand the limitations of PC GPU hardware, their drivers, and graphics APIs, right? You can't get the same results as a software renderer, period. It's not GLideN64's fault some people are running integrated intel GPUs with broken drivers and refuse to use Linux, where the drivers are less crappy.

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

If it were up to me, I think D3D9, Windows XP, and (maybe) SSE2 would be my cutoff.

Bear in mind DirectX won't and by nature can't be the lead API. DirectX APIs in emulators exist as a fallback, if they exist at all. DirectX has no advantages over GL and Vulkan, and has obvious disadvantages because it's Windows only. It is fortunate that GLideN64 is open to new backends, and a DX renderer would be a useful fallback, but DX is a dead end.