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  #11  
Old 19th February 2013, 12:16 AM
mudlord_ mudlord_ is offline
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Too bad the opposite is true. If you really don't want me to care about cycle-accuracy so much (currently where I'm at) then learn when to shut up.
No, its very good someone gives a damn about cycle accuracy everything.

How else will progress be done?
Do you honestly think opcode accuracy is adequate? It sure as hell IS NOT!!!!

We must use byuu's method or don't bother trying at all.
Who the hell cares about speed?

Emulation is about preservation, not about playable speeds.
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  #12  
Old 19th February 2013, 12:19 AM
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learn when to shut up.
Those were the key words, btw.

Since you have failed this step I am considering even more to become like byuu, until you learn to shut up.
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  #13  
Old 19th February 2013, 12:21 AM
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Which is good.

Become more like byuu, then I have more motivation to treat you like byuu.

Which means pissing on your current work, which I haven't done ONCE.

Sure its illogical, but byuu is illogical XD
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  #14  
Old 19th February 2013, 12:23 AM
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Silly liar. You piss on everyone else's site + work.

I don't care what you think about mine. You insult basically everyone else here; why should just one person make me not ban you at VBA-M?
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  #15  
Old 19th February 2013, 12:27 AM
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ic what you did thar

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why should just one person make me not ban you at VBA-M?
go ahead

ok, I should insult your work for not being SSE, and MarathonMan's for being SSE, happy?
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  #16  
Old 19th February 2013, 12:30 AM
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Meh.

Look, I'm speaking the truth when I say that I'm not concerned with your opinions about my work (though, part of that is contributed by the impression I'm getting that you never seem to have any, just psychological mid-subtle statements attempting to shift my intentions or whatever).
Anyone is free to think what they will (as long as it's not something fucking retarded).

The only thing that's ever bothered me is how I see you treat everyone else on sites like this.
How you treat me? You seem more like a generous, perhaps midway insane person, compared to a mentally abusive parent raising a child.

In either case, I have little involvement.
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  #17  
Old 19th February 2013, 12:42 AM
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Hmmm oh yeah,

Quote:
Originally Posted by haxatax View Post
No, its very good someone gives a damn about cycle accuracy everything.

How else will progress be done?
Do you honestly think opcode accuracy is adequate?
Well, I don't really see HLE as "emulation progress", but it is useful for learning how to make target hardware behavior more direct on the native environment, studying the algorithms more closely.

Similarly, a simple RSP interpreter without cycle-accuracy is a much smaller base to work with, before forward-extending it with certain aspects or types of accuracy (like cycle-) that a N64 executable could in theory command use of.

I do wish to account for all possibilities (or else I would not be beginning from LLE first); I just don't think it's a good strategy to maintain that adherence from the very first line of code I type.
As I said in the thread before this one, solutions to programming should at least start out simple and direct, not desperate. An interpreter can become a cycle-accurate, static recompiler.
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  #18  
Old 19th February 2013, 01:44 AM
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I'll bite.

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Well, I don't really see HLE as "emulation progress", but it is useful for learning how to make target hardware behavior more direct on the native environment, studying the algorithms more closely.
That I agree with. And I also personally don't see the harm in learning how a game's graphics work on a low software level. And reimplementing said processes. Sure you can have fun while reversing for LLE, don't see how thats different for HLE either. Just different means, and goals.

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As I said in the thread before this one, solutions to programming should at least start out simple and direct, not desperate. An interpreter can become a cycle-accurate, static recompiler.
Agreed. Better to have a clean base to start from before experiments are made. I guess that can apply to LLE RDP emulators to HLE implementations, too.
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  #19  
Old 19th February 2013, 02:22 AM
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Well I try to reverse whenever possible, with what little resources I have (a real N64 no longer being one of them, I'm hoping to RE the memory pak reserved bits on the hardware somehow...sometimes I can disassemble libraries in the OS reference to RE things without having a real N64).
But reversing LLE usually takes less work than hacking out HLE microcodes, from what I understand.
My microcode logger generates like, hundreds of megabytes of RSP instructions for some graphics ucodes...I'm like, WTF? Who in their right mind would go through so much trouble just for HLE'ing specific (not to mention copyrighted) games?

Not that it's at all without admiration, but LLE I believe is the key to passionate, hardware preservation -- not that HLE cannot preserve some of the more direct flow of how tasks are supposed to work natively, but this always ends up including someone else's code indirectly. If you emulate absolutely nothing about the software and only the hardware system itself then morally speaking it becomes a lot more legal and universal (hardware isn't copyrighted).

Quote:
Originally Posted by haxatax View Post
Agreed. Better to have a clean base to start from before experiments are made. I guess that can apply to LLE RDP emulators to HLE implementations, too.
This was the goal of Project Unreality at first, from the beginning day that people only just started to know a N64 emulator could be made do with...but the rarity of one with the skill to use the information properly, is not unique apart from the rarity of one who can implement the information in a readable, accurate layout (an interpreter base...in the RSP's case, much like zilmar had to do before Jabo could make a recompiler out of it). Start out by including the least amount of information as possible, and there is less things to be broken / stand a chance of being inaccurate (missing information is better than misinformation).

I'm more-or-less following behind MarathonMan's lead since I know little of cycle-accuracy, but if it's the only way to guarantee every single thing will work as the N64 may require then it's not something I can just ignore. I'm certainly willing to accept help off of the example he applies with it, but for now, my efforts are independent of anyone else's. If need be I am happy if my work ends without cycle-accuracy in it, but somewhere out there we definitely should have at least one demonstration. There are lots of other things like this I don't know for sure I'll finish adding, hence why I'm defaulting to open-source in case nobody else takes an interest in the RSP by the time I get back to it (hate focusing on the same project for too long).
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  #20  
Old 19th February 2013, 02:46 AM
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Not that it's at all without admiration, but LLE I believe is the key to passionate, hardware preservation -- not that HLE cannot preserve some of the more direct flow of how tasks are supposed to work natively, but this always ends up including someone else's code indirectly.
oh yes, including using Nintendo's manuals for documentation on thier ucodes.

Quote:
My microcode logger generates like, hundreds of megabytes of RSP instructions for some graphics ucodes...I'm like, WTF? Who in their right mind would go through so much trouble just for HLE'ing specific (not to mention copyrighted) games?
Maybe they find it a challenge, like Gonetz did for finding out the lighting in CBFD? Maybe for speed (like its done currently) ? Maybe for things like hires textures?

I can name plenty of reasons why to do HLE, but I can also see plenty to do LLE (like better compatibility, ability for debugging, etc)
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