#11  
Old 27th August 2014, 06:59 PM
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It could be that there is two ways to increase the resolution by scaling.

One way would be by the N64 itself (or emulation) which would cause lag from the emu itself.
The other way is the rendering itself being upscaled which does not cause any lag for me on M64+AE,but can lag since my weak enough PC lags quite a bit on higher resolution using PJ64.

The same kind of lag happens when I change Dolphin Emu's resolution to 3x Native,despite it already lagging for me on 1x Native,but it looks prettier on 3x.
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  #12  
Old 27th August 2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Wally123 View Post
The hardware is incapable of z-buffer clamping polygons. The N64 is. That makes it easier to expand the size of polygons while causing less jagged lines.
And it still has nothing to do with 1080p or 240p.
Polygon size has nothing to do with the raster output resolution that has to be adjusted for a 240p television screen, which you yourself just got done admitting:

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Originally Posted by Wally123 View Post
We also have to remember that the native output resolution to the TV is 240p...
Which you admitted to this here.

Therefore there is little point to the N64 drawing beyond 240 non-interlaced. Frame buffer resolutions don't need to be configured for anything higher, so that a simple lazy small drawing of 320x240 will be hi-res enough to be compatible with native output on the TV. Your fantasy of 1080p doesn't exist here in the real world and serves no purpose.

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The reason the N64 had such good frame rates is because the hardware couldn't handle resolutions above 240p without the RAM expansion in place. Anything more would have forced the machine to scale the polygons...which would slow it down.
The reason the ass bergers of this forum are capable of talking out of their ass is because people are capable of ASSuming things.

Get it? HAHAHAHAHA k.

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Originally Posted by retroben View Post
It could be that there is two ways to increase the resolution by scaling.

One way would be by the N64 itself (or emulation) which would cause lag from the emu itself.
The other way is the rendering itself being upscaled which does not cause any lag for me on M64+AE,
Neither of those ways even exist outside of sole imagination.

As a matter of fact there are two ways, but they have nothing to do with the ones you guessed.
a) configure frame buffer read width/height and VI X- and Y-scale factors to take in a fixed matrix of pixels from N64 memory
b) Switch to interlaced mode, where 240p becomes 480i and alternates scan line updates every other frame.
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  #13  
Old 27th August 2014, 08:46 PM
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And it still has nothing to do with 1080p or 240p.
Polygon size has nothing to do with the raster output resolution that has to be adjusted for a 240p television screen, which you yourself just got done admitting:



Which you admitted to this here.

Therefore there is little point to the N64 drawing beyond 240 non-interlaced. Frame buffer resolutions don't need to be configured for anything higher, so that a simple lazy small drawing of 320x240 will be hi-res enough to be compatible with native output on the TV. Your fantasy of 1080p doesn't exist here in the real world and serves no purpose.





The reason the ass bergers of this forum are capable of talking out of their ass is because people are capable of ASSuming things.

Get it? HAHAHAHAHA k.



Neither of those ways even exist outside of sole imagination.

As a matter of fact there are two ways, but they have nothing to do with the ones you guessed.
a) configure frame buffer read width/height and VI X- and Y-scale factors to take in a fixed matrix of pixels from N64 memory
b) Switch to interlaced mode, where 240p becomes 480i and alternates scan line updates every other frame.
I get it :-3 Anyhow...all I can say is that since the N64, Nintendo has used the same polygon scaling software in their games as the GameCube, Wii and WiiU. This occurs in 1080p mode for Virtual Console on the WiiU. Raise the resolution high enough, keep the polygons and textures, and keep the pixel aspect ratio...and there will be no need for anti-aliasing by software.

If you are wondering why I mention nGlide...A Glide WRAPPER...it is because I can set it to have anything game running off its own 3DFX driver to match my desktop's resolution by selecting "By Desktop" in nGlide's configuration app..which would not otherwise be recognized by either Jabbo's D3D nor Glide64. If you want 4k res in PJ64, make sure your graphics card can take it.
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Last edited by Wally123; 27th August 2014 at 09:01 PM.
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  #14  
Old 27th August 2014, 09:17 PM
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There is no 4k res on N64 and that has nothing to do with graphics card support. A 4096x4096 TEXTURE would eat up more memory than a 64x64 texture, but a triangle or geometry of 3 vectors scaled to 4096x4096 instead of only 64x64 isn't quite the issue you seem to think it is. Your monitor or OS desktop resolution not being big enough to show the whole thing on-screen would be more relevant.

So no, you still don't get it.
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Old 5th September 2014, 12:03 PM
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there is no support for full hd on the n64 either but im running 1080p on my monitor with pj64 and the graphics are amazing compared to n64.
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  #16  
Old 5th September 2014, 03:45 PM
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I am going to say this in a much more simplified way, HatCat, as I am admittedly not well versed in the terminology.... The higher the monitor resolution you use, the less jagged lines (aliasing) you see. Poly counts stay the same..the texture resolutions and shapes also stay the same...because the monitor display is still on a 2D geometric surface. Texture scaling is typically done with pixel filters which rely on algorithms such as Maxim Stempa's HQ4x, or xBR, to smooth out the pixelation. Scaling 64x64 textures 4x the texture resolution scales the textures to 256x256. 4096x4096 texture resolution are the textures scaled 64x the native texture resolution. Pixel ratios do not change, but one can use a hack to change the polygonal geometry is needed to do 16x9 natively so that the output display does not seem distorted...Jabbo'sD3D uses a method of geometry hack that changes the camera FOV as well as the geometry.

To be clear, with the PJ64 Gide64 version, forcing 16x9 always distorts the image even if a game like DK64 or Goldeneye or Perfect Dark supports 16x9 natively. Luckily, the PJ64 Glide64 plugin can be set to use Stretch mode on 16x9 monitor resolutions . Otherwise, I typically play most games in 1080p4:3 mode by setting the monitor resolution to 1920x1080 at 60Hz, and setting the Glide plugin to force 4:3 mode.

Scaling a resolution does not involve changing the geometry of the polygons in use, it simply displays the projected 2D TV image at a higher or lower resolution than what geometric 3d objects were meant to be displayed on. This means that if the console video output resolution image is lower than what the game's polygons were rendered in, aliasing occurs. If the display on the monitor happens to be higher than what the polygons were rendered in, aliasing becomes less severe. Most N64 games were developed in 800x600 monitor resolutions (case in point..StarFox 64 and MarioKart 64)...but were programmed to have a monitor display output of either 320x240p or 640x480i.

If your monitor is capable of 4k resolutions, and if you want to use a texture pack, you won't need any texture filters to smooth over for 2x texture scaling because the texture pack already has textures that are 128x128 (2x 64x64) in pixel density or higher in size...and with a 4k monitor resolution, that is plenty enough....The thing about using a 2x filter with a texture pack that is 128x128 (2x 64x64) on average for remade textures is that the GPU and/or CPU is forced to filter 4 times the native pixel resolution....This means two data threads would be required to scale both the filter and the textures in the texture pack in stead of merely the texture filter or the texture pack.

What does this all mean? Simply one thing. The higher the resolution of the monitor you are using and have the plugin set to, the less stair-step jagged the edges of 3D objects in an n64 game will become (this does not affect polygon count). You use texture filters and/or texture packs to smooth out and/or enhance the textures if you want to, but keep in mind that the former requires an algorithm that may require extra CPU or GPU speed to keep the game from slowing down or dropping in FPS rates.

Now, about nGlide....
We all know that the Glide 64 Plugin may or may not pick up on your computer's resolution...Using nGlide to override a 3dfx app's resolution setting is quite simple...Set your desktop resolution to whichever resolution you wish to use and configure nGlide (a Glide wrapper that installs to your system files similarly to DirectX...not your PJ64 directory..I have been through that thousands of times) to this



Note it might not scale the textures as far, but it will certainly reduce stair-step polygonal aliasing.

Last edited by Wally123; 5th September 2014 at 04:02 PM. Reason: This just keepd getting longer and longer...
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  #17  
Old 5th September 2014, 05:21 PM
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Not really. If anything I think a 640x480 frame buffer showing on my screen as 1080p or some 4k resolution would look more aliased and jagged than showing it on a 640x480 monitor resolution, where the display resolution for your monitor matches the interlaced DAC output of a genuine N64, and not some hi-res hack for the geometry like what Glide64 does.

All a 4k resolution would do is make low-res video output happen on a hi-res monitor, which would be pixilated and aliased. The monitor would be more likely to do some kind of blurry effect if you were in full-screen at a lower resolution than a higher one.
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Old 5th September 2014, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Wally123 View Post
Most N64 games were developed in 800x600 monitor resolutions (case in point..StarFox 64 and MarioKart 64)...but were programmed to have a monitor display output of either 320x240p or 640x480i.
Logic not even once .


Cmon now.. nGlide ftl. The fact that you can't even tell the difference is proof.
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  #19  
Old 9th September 2014, 02:50 PM
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Yes the textures become more pixilated, and in some games that is perfectly ok. Keep in mind that the blurriness was present on CRT monitors and TV's due to scanlines and color bleed. Programmers figured out how to take advantage of that long ago to make textures appear sharp on the TV's at the time. Since 4k resolution TV's and monitors are now flat panel, textures are easily pixilated. Filters are useful for emulating scan lines to make textures look less pixilated because it is relatively more simple mathematically (meaning less computing power required) to gently blur the frame buffer to how it would have looked on an actual CRT. There are algorithms involved that help scale, move, and/or fill in pixels much the same way 3D anti-aliasing works. Hq4x and xBR are great examples. As for 3D objects on a 2D screen...the higher the resolution you choose to use in PJ64, the less polygonal aliasing occurs. As the resolution you select increases, textures become more pixilated, but the alaising of polygons is significantly reduced.

So basically if you want to play n64 games at a 4K resolution, on a 4K TV as the monitor, that is just fine, but you either have to use a pixel filter like 4xHQ or xBR to scale and sharpen the textures on each polygon, or a texture pack that replaces the textures altogether as the ROM is being loaded into memory... and I mostly prefer the latter. This is because texture filters require a lot of computing power by comparison, whereas texture packs merely require enough RAM (and the computing power to compress them...which is far less by comparison) to load them into memory.
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Last edited by Wally123; 9th September 2014 at 03:13 PM.
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  #20  
Old 9th September 2014, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGMaster View Post
Logic not even once .


Cmon now.. nGlide ftl. The fact that you can't even tell the difference is proof.

With Jabbo's D3D plugins, the skybox, for most of the planets which you fly through in StarFox64, tends to not clamp together properly when you use height resolutions above 600. This can be replicated when playing MarioKart 64 when you finish races in GP mode as well.
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