Go Back   Project64 Forums > General Discussion > Open Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1771  
Old 1st May 2015, 02:17 AM
HatCat's Avatar
HatCat HatCat is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my hat.
Posts: 16,236
Default

I am fine without involving money, though I have for several years now lacked a real N64 and an available TV to output through or capture stuff.

And yeah, some of these games have really, really crazy graphics RDP bugs on the real hardware, totally messy stuff you'd think was just a bug in the emulator...when really it's HLE that fixes these bugs and LLE that emulates them!
Reply With Quote
  #1772  
Old 1st May 2015, 03:08 AM
theboy181's Avatar
theboy181 theboy181 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prince Rupert,British Columbia Canada
Posts: 424
Default

Hat is correct.. N64 was not perfect with texture handling by any means.

A good example is Chameleon Twist. The Kitty logo is ass on the REAL HW too.
__________________
Book recommendation!
https://www.amazon.com/All-Cats-Have.../dp/1843104814
Reply With Quote
  #1773  
Old 1st May 2015, 07:37 PM
ReyVGM ReyVGM is offline
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 212
Default

I understand your experiment, but I've had bad experiences with resizing images that way. Maybe Mario 64 gives you perfect results, but other games might not.

I can still keep using older versions of the plugin for my 320x240 screenshot needs, no biggie.

What interests me the most is seeing a newer version of the plugin 'properly' show games with non-standard resolutions in a non-standard window. Goldeneye was a huge improvement on this latest version, but other games did not fare as well.
Although, that might be because of that "issue" I reported a while back, of some games with VI enabled natively encasing the visuals in a black frame, but with the VI disabled they are displayed full screen.
I hope someone takes some captures of a real Turok 2 (or any game from that list I made) to see if it's really encased in black frames.
Reply With Quote
  #1774  
Old 3rd May 2015, 01:28 AM
HatCat's Avatar
HatCat HatCat is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my hat.
Posts: 16,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReyVGM View Post
I understand your experiment, but I've had bad experiences with resizing images that way.
Not talking about a "way" to do it. There's more than one way to resize an image when you lose this much information; that was my point. GIMP just gives you a list of some of the options; if this plugin were to change the resize method it would merely be picking from another one of those, inevitably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReyVGM View Post
Maybe Mario 64 gives you perfect results, but other games might not.
Well if what you were saying is that you've "had bad experiences with resizing images" that were 440x330, processed to their native resolution up to 640x480, then resize them to 440x330, then yeah obviously, that would make sense. There's no regular resize that exists that would reverse what real hardware did to make it look like the hacked image you want.

The point is that's because any re-sizing at all gives bad results--which is why probably, you shouldn't do it. It looks better at 640 for some reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReyVGM View Post
I can still keep using older versions of the plugin for my 320x240 screenshot needs, no biggie.
Except for the games which incidentally had half the frame buffer size as the hardware native DAC size, in which case it divides evenly into a 2:1 ratio (640x480 is 200% of 320x240, which allows the possibility of hacking the image by means of a re-size.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReyVGM View Post
What interests me the most is seeing a newer version of the plugin 'properly' show games with non-standard resolutions in a non-standard window.
What might the definition of "nonstandard resolution" be? Just something that's not 320x240?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReyVGM View Post
Goldeneye was a huge improvement on this latest version, but other games did not fare as well.
It's what I was hoping for. The last release was focused on filtering quality when scaling up or down the image. If it made the 440x330 hack of GoldenEye look better for you, then it was a coincidence, though I guess by itself it indicates nothing directly negative about my approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReyVGM View Post
Although, that might be because of that "issue" I reported a while back, of some games with VI enabled natively encasing the visuals in a black frame, but with the VI disabled they are displayed full screen.
I hope someone takes some captures of a real Turok 2 (or any game from that list I made) to see if it's really encased in black frames.
Well I've seen already a couple native video captures taken from N64 hardware output itself which had the in-scaling towards the center leaving the frames around it, so until I see anything which contradicts that information I have no reason to believe that it isn't simply a natural configuration of the VI scaling registers, which more than permit the possibility.
Reply With Quote
  #1775  
Old 3rd May 2015, 01:32 AM
HatCat's Avatar
HatCat HatCat is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my hat.
Posts: 16,236
Default

mylittle-nocomment3.7z had better picture for you because it was still written in DirectDraw back then.

The scaling method used Windows rectangles to do a DirectDraw scaled blit with a hacked (by that I mean wrong, as it was against MSDN documentation) screen width factor by one pixel, which corrected the blurring that half of the image was having on some GPUs (yours and mine) but would make it wrong on others. This again, was another case of GPU-defined behavior when using DirectX to blit the image.

mylittle-nocomment4, 5, and the EmuTalk releases you are able to download from my thread are all done in OpenGL in order so that I can have more low-level control over the raster stuff that dictates how the stuff is drawn to the screen on the client's side. So if I am to have any chance of using this information to look at how OpenGL can control the scaling towards what you wanted, I have to be able to compare between 4, 5, and the EmuTalk builds. Anything before mylittle-nocomment4 was still done in DirectDraw.
Reply With Quote
  #1776  
Old 6th May 2015, 06:14 AM
GPDP GPDP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 146
Default

So a few games like Rogue Squadron suffer from a weird issue on screens that would normally be interlaced:









The third image is actually in motion, so there's some combing artifacts, which are typically normal, but the others are still images, which should exhibit no such artifacts, and most other games with interlaced screens (Pokemon Stadium and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 for example) indeed have no such issues, displaying perfectly on said screens.

For what it's worth, the RetroArch version of this plugin exhibits exactly the same issue.
Reply With Quote
  #1777  
Old 13th May 2015, 06:57 PM
OldGnashburg's Avatar
OldGnashburg OldGnashburg is offline
Project Supporter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada; a place with free universal healthcare and f*ckload of oil and Uranium.
Posts: 70
Default

I don't know much about programming, but why cant we just leave the resolution at what it's supposed to be 320x237, wasn't the hardware designed to omit those 3 lines of pixels so it could look better on a late-90's CRT?
__________________
Gnash, Gnash, Gnash...
Reply With Quote
  #1778  
Old 13th May 2015, 08:31 PM
ExtremeDude2's Avatar
ExtremeDude2 ExtremeDude2 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 3,103
Default

Not all games run at the same resolution.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsx! View Post
are you american or something
Reply With Quote
  #1779  
Old 14th May 2015, 02:43 PM
OldGnashburg's Avatar
OldGnashburg OldGnashburg is offline
Project Supporter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada; a place with free universal healthcare and f*ckload of oil and Uranium.
Posts: 70
Default

Ah, that makes sense then.
__________________
Gnash, Gnash, Gnash...
Reply With Quote
  #1780  
Old 23rd May 2015, 08:38 AM
ReyVGM ReyVGM is offline
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HatCat View Post
mylittle-nocomment3.7z had better picture for you because it was still written in DirectDraw back then.

The scaling method used Windows rectangles to do a DirectDraw scaled blit with a hacked (by that I mean wrong, as it was against MSDN documentation) screen width factor by one pixel, which corrected the blurring that half of the image was having on some GPUs (yours and mine) but would make it wrong on others. This again, was another case of GPU-defined behavior when using DirectX to blit the image.

mylittle-nocomment4, 5, and the EmuTalk releases you are able to download from my thread are all done in OpenGL in order so that I can have more low-level control over the raster stuff that dictates how the stuff is drawn to the screen on the client's side. So if I am to have any chance of using this information to look at how OpenGL can control the scaling towards what you wanted, I have to be able to compare between 4, 5, and the EmuTalk builds. Anything before mylittle-nocomment4 was still done in DirectDraw.
I see.

Thanks for everything you've done so far by the way

I hope it keeps improving and hopefully one day I'll be able to see a game in a window with its native non-standard resolution (as in, not 320 or 640), with filters enabled, and that it doesn't look garbled or like crap :P

Imagine if you take a native resolution screenshot with F3, then apply some filters to it. That's how I'm imagining games would look on the emulator if you apply the VI filters to a game in a non-standard res window.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.