New LLE RSP Plugin (accurate, fast but untested?)

[HatCat]

Originally Posted by wildgoosespeeder

So you never released that fix? That's a shame. I would have loved to use solely your RSP and drop RSP 1.7.dll for good (hopefully, unless your plugin has further issues).

I forgot this quote.

Releasing just takes time. I've made thousands of commits and code changes...some of which pedantic, most improvements.

If I wanted to release every time I made an improvement there would be hundreds of DLLs. When I was still a hermit I didn't mind it--I put up a new "public release" every few months (or weeks in some cases) with documentation/README changes, well-written news, journal of all the changes and improvements...

It's not really hard work, but it's tedious to keep doing at this point in my life, and GitHub's (and scarily enough for the news/changelog, EmuCR) been doing it all for me. My project is on GitHub as well, by the way in case you hadn't known. I would encourage building from source but understand this can be most difficult to set up in controlling Microsoft land, so that is a good reason to switch to RSP 1.7.dll like RPGMaster suggested. At this time, the recompiler setting with that plugin is faster than this interpreter in virtually all cases (although before RPGMaster contributed to it, it was not uncommon for this interpreter to be faster if and only if playing with HLE audio but LLE graphics--with the opposite, I could never find a case where this interpreter was faster).

Though, speaking of which, why is it that you say you hope to remove all of the first-party plugins of Project64's? Why does it matter that you replace Jabo's plugins with others, or PJ64 RSP with mine, etc.? Something about closed-source or anti-PJ64 etc.?

[wildgoosespeeder]

Originally Posted by HatCat

Though, speaking of which, why is it that you say you hope to remove all of the first-party plugins of Project64's? Why does it matter that you replace Jabo's plugins with others, or PJ64 RSP with mine, etc.? Something about closed-source or anti-PJ64 etc.?

Throughout my experiences using Project64 since v1.6, 3rd party plugins tend to produce better results than 1st party ones, so I have converted to mostly 3rd party plugins compliant with Project64. At this stage, I am just using Project64 as a central HUB for the plugins I like the most. It's a central HUB that is the easiest to use at the moment.

[HatCat]

I usually stuck to all the first-party plugins. Sure I did a lot of mass-testing and kept around over 40 plugins installed between all the emulators, but for leisure play (which I rarely did) I commonly just plaid with Jabo's graphics and sound plugins. The RSP plugin as well, back when its interpreter was faster than mine. It usually depending on the game. With Zelda OOT, I think I just played with glN64. Still kept the first-party plugins around--except the DirectInput plugin by Jabo which I never saw much advantage to.

In fact, I honestly never wanted to release this plugin publicly for the same reasons RPGMaster wouldn't want to release his fork, but the tens of questions, uncertainties and experiments I needed to test out about RSP accuracy information and details was what really won me into finally making it public. Unfortunately the drama these days from negative people who continue to misinterpret the past and judge me on the basis of their own anger and competitiveness has always seemed to lead me to find the ends haven't justified the means. I would have closed this thread forever ago if I could, along with Shunyuan's dead plugin threads.

At any rate, I did some digging around EmuCR if you didn't want to compile it. Dunno whether it works.
http://www.emucr.com/2017/01/rsp-git-20170104.html?m=1

You would also have to compile angrylion's plugin yourself to get the latest build. The OpenGL thread you linked to pages back is a few accuracy commits behind and doesn't analogize very well to the acceleration DirectDraw uses due to its lack of frame buffer rectangle extensions to make it faster. Again, things that have been taken care of since then, but releasing is a time-consuming thing. Especially when it ensues more unnecessary drama from unnecessarily bitter people.

[wildgoosespeeder]

I get not publishing every little change you make, but I guess that Public Release 6 was around June 2014 while your first release was around April 2013. Do you think its time for Public Release 7+?

The build you linked me to is giving me unknown memory action errors.

[RPGMaster]

Originally Posted by HatCat

Ah, I missed that.

Well, reading it now, I forgot that you said that.

I read it in a different context at the time. I thought you were telling him to switch RSPs to test if it was a RSP plugin issue or not (when I was complaining you weren't realizing that it was). :/ You correct me; based on your reply it was in hopes of provoking some jealousy or competitiveness in me you fantasize about by asking him to switch to a different plugin altogether.

I suggested testing with pj64's rsp to see if it also has the triangle issue. Seems like wildgoosespeeder does not want to / can't compile on his own, so it is convenient for him to just try builds he already has, or at least can easily obtain.

I really don't care which plugins wildgoosespeeder decides to use. Both RSP plugins have their pros and cons and I'm sure you know I'm not all about that "one size fits all" mentality.

[HatCat]

Originally Posted by wildgoosespeeder

I get not publishing every little change you make, but I guess that Public Release 6 was around June 2014 while your first release was around April 2013.

No, the June 2014 edit to my post was just to move the plugin download from filesend.net to dropbox.com.

I have some archival of the release history:

2013.12.12:  public release 6
2013.12.04:  public release 5
2013.06.09:  public release 4
2013.05.15:  public release 3
2013.05.13:  public release 2
2013.04.14:  public release 1

Hm...although looking at it now, I had no idea my release history was this consolidated. I'm surprised everything is from 2013. I know development-wise I had testers helping me find oddities in games back in 2011, but I didn't see a reason to release for 2 years.

Originally Posted by wildgoosespeeder

Do you think its time for Public Release 7+?

I never did a public release, ever, without thinking each version could be the last.

I only did a public release once I felt I'd hit final perfection (usually in terms of performance, since accuracy was not a big issue thanks to zilmar's and MAME RSPs to study), and that anything else left to do in the plugin was just a matter of needing feedback from testers around the world to help me catch unused opcodes or the like.

The number of public releases is merely a reflection of how many times I was wrong about perfection, not the number of times I felt like updating everyone with an interim improvement. I would have still expected everyone to compile it on their own meanwhile.

But to jump back to your question, I am not done committing more improvements to the RSP plugin, but have just not had the time yet.

Originally Posted by wildgoosespeeder

The build you linked me to is giving me unknown memory action errors.

That just means it's segfaulting, and Project64's catching the access violation with its own exception checking (and its own error message).

I cannot test since I don't have Windows anymore. I have Linux.

I tried to send you an old new (yes that's correctly typed) rsp.dll file I had from my Windows partition, but PMs on this forum are broken. zilmar needs to fix his server thing. I don't do AIM or Skype or any of that crap, although you're welcome on IRC.

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

I suggested testing with pj64's rsp to see if it also has the triangle issue.

No, because you would first have to establish that it was RSP-related to begin with.

It's not possible to respond to an issue saying "try changing plugins" for the reason of seeing if a different RSP plugin shares the same issue (no change at all from switching DLLs) without knowing the RSP plugin was causing it.

You would have to first suggest to change plugins for the reason of seeing if it's a RSP plugin issue to begin with before you could even pose the question of whether other RSP plugins share the exact same issue or already know ahead of time that it was his outdated build causing it.

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

Seems like wildgoosespeeder does not want to / can't compile on his own,

He would want to / could compile it on his own if he was using a better operating system.

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

so it is convenient for him to just try builds he already has, or at least can easily obtain.

I thought the reason for asking him to switch was to see if Project64 also had the bug inside its own RSP like you said, not because it was convenient for him to switch to builds he already has installed. Make up your mind.

Originally Posted by RPGMaster

Both RSP plugins have their pros and cons and I'm sure you know I'm not all about that "one size fits all" mentality.

Yes, I do know that.

If I wasn't aware of that I'd be sitting here wondering why theboy181's vagina is as sorely penetrated as his ass.

[wildgoosespeeder]

Originally Posted by HatCat

No, the June 2014 edit to my post was just to move the plugin download from filesend.net to dropbox.com.

I have some archival of the release history:

2013.12.12:  public release 6
2013.12.04:  public release 5
2013.06.09:  public release 4
2013.05.15:  public release 3
2013.05.13:  public release 2
2013.04.14:  public release 1

Hm...although looking at it now, I had no idea my release history was this consolidated. I'm surprised everything is from 2013. I know development-wise I had testers helping me find oddities in games back in 2011, but I didn't see a reason to release for 2 years.

I estimated based on limited information. I was close.

I never did a public release, ever, without thinking each version could be the last.

I only did a public release once I felt I'd hit final perfection (usually in terms of performance, since accuracy was not a big issue thanks to zilmar's and MAME RSPs to study), and that anything else left to do in the plugin was just a matter of needing feedback from testers around the world to help me catch unused opcodes or the like.

The number of public releases is merely a reflection of how many times I was wrong about perfection, not the number of times I felt like updating everyone with an interim improvement. I would have still expected everyone to compile it on their own meanwhile.

You can't be perfect but you are good already. Don't set the bar too high and don't be afraid to get helpers test your improvements, even if your RSP faults somewhere. There is only so much you can do on your own.

I tried to send you an old new (yes that's correctly typed) rsp.dll file I had from my Windows partition, but PMs on this forum are broken. zilmar needs to fix his server thing. I don't do AIM or Skype or any of that crap, although you're welcome on IRC.

Yup, all fixed. Thanks! The failed config thing is now gone too! Also worth noting it fixes other game issues, such as F-Zero X with the pink bubble thing when a machine is in the pink patch. Your PR6 RSP wouldn't render it when it reached full size.

Would it be OK with you if this version of the plugin were publicized instead of just PMed directly to me? Many people would appreciate your hard work getting your RSP with higher accuracy than PR6!

He would want to / could compile it on his own if he was using a better operating system.

I can compile for Win32, but with the EmuCR example, something went wrong at run time, which could suggest it was compiled differently or is a true error in the code somewhere. It is often better to get the source code compiled by someone that can verify the binary works as it is expected to, in this case, you haven't let me down with your binary releases.

[HatCat]

Well, at the moment I've been repartitioning my desktop computer to have a 32-bit Linux on it with WINE. This should enable me to put out Windows binary releases over intervals of time.

The one I sent you was the newest one I could find compiled for Windows, but I didn't boot into Windows that often and there might be newer ones on my other computer.

Originally Posted by wildgoosespeeder

Yup, all fixed. Thanks! The failed config thing is now gone too! Also worth noting it fixes other game issues, such as F-Zero X with the pink bubble thing when a machine is in the pink patch. Your PR6 RSP wouldn't render it when it reached full size.

I don't know if I still have PR5 and older around somewhere. I'm quite sure PR6 introduced bugs like that due to all the tens of rewrites from scratch, where I went insane restyling the plugin on my hermit bored time.

One thing about this plugin you should note is that it is not designed to encompass or supersede Project64's RSP plugin. In fact, more realistically, I designed it to be the polar opposite to that plugin. It does things mine doesn't (like single-stepping COP0 status mode, different SP DMA emulation and extra illegal LWC2 and SWC2 alignments that I haven't yet encountered a game using).

I do things "better" insofar as everything I can gather, but any room for uncertainty is something I purposely leave opposite to the way zilmar's RSP does it to double the odds that one plugin or the other will prove which outcome is correct.

So it is good to test both plugins if you do see a bug, but after this many years I doubt I would have any bugs left. BTW, any error messages from RSP will still use the funny CMD window pop-ups you saw earlier. I know they're confusing (at least on Windows), but the object of an error is that it shouldn't be possible for you to encounter them if my plugin is perfect, so in this case confusion is good.

That failed to open config thing wasn't really worth such confusion anyway...not really meant for that type of error.

Originally Posted by wildgoosespeeder

Would it be OK with you if this version of the plugin were publicized instead of just PMed directly to me? Many people would appreciate your hard work getting your RSP with higher accuracy than PR6!

Well, I won't do it, but nothing's stopping you I guess.

The idea is anybody should be able to compile this plugin. After that, anybody is free to upload their builds for other people if they see some kind of reason. Besides, it has been a number of years since I've released, hasn't it? You can publish it if you want.

The thing is as far as making it official, "release" is something I consider to include updates to documentation or the config file, news etc. and not just a single DLL file upload. But this is just an interim update after all, so apparently that's all you really needed anyway.

Originally Posted by wildgoosespeeder

I can compile for Win32, but with the EmuCR example, something went wrong at run time, which could suggest it was compiled differently or is a true error in the code somewhere. It is often better to get the source code compiled by someone that can verify the binary works as it is expected to, in this case, you haven't let me down with your binary releases.

I have no idea what EmuCR does.

Maybe they left my compile script to use -march=native instead of -march=sse2, which causes it to build with whatever instruction set architecture EmuCR uploader's CPU supports. So if their CPU supports AVX2 and yours doesn't, well...their fault for uploading that. I usually do my releases with -msse2, but -msse4 generates some more compact, faster RSP code too. What's the speedup? No clue since I have no SSE4 CPU.

It's also theoretically possible that Project64 changed so monumentally much, that there really is something in there that causes it to not work with the latest Win32 build of my RSP plugin from source (which I don't have and can't test, being on Linux), and I just haven't been told about it.

[wildgoosespeeder]

Originally Posted by HatCat

Well, I won't do it, but nothing's stopping you I guess.

The idea is anybody should be able to compile this plugin. After that, anybody is free to upload their builds for other people if they see some kind of reason. Besides, it has been a number of years since I've released, hasn't it? You can publish it if you want.

The thing is as far as making it official, "release" is something I consider to include updates to documentation or the config file, news etc. and not just a single DLL file upload. But this is just an interim update after all, so apparently that's all you really needed anyway.

You could just update your first post like you did after the first release. That would be ideal.

[RPGMaster]

Originally Posted by HatCat

No, because you would first have to establish that it was RSP-related to begin with.

It's not possible to respond to an issue saying "try changing plugins" for the reason of seeing if a different RSP plugin shares the same issue (no change at all from switching DLLs) without knowing the RSP plugin was causing it.

You would have to first suggest to change plugins for the reason of seeing if it's a RSP plugin issue to begin with before you could even pose the question of whether other RSP plugins share the exact same issue or already know ahead of time that it was his outdated build causing it.

I believed that there was a high chance that those messed up triangles were caused by RSP plugin. I don't see why testing different RSP plugins would not be a good idea, if I believe there's a high chance that it's the RSP causing the issue.

Originally Posted by HatCat

He would want to / could compile it on his own if he was using a better operating system.

I don't think it's that hard to compile on Windows .

Originally Posted by HatCat

I thought the reason for asking him to switch was to see if Project64 also had the bug inside its own RSP like you said, not because it was convenient for him to switch to builds he already has installed. Make up your mind.

What, I can't have multiple reasons ? Anyway, I was referring to why I specifically chose PJ64's RSP as the one to try, instead of switching to a different RSP like z64 or something else.

Anyway, my key point is that there was no malintent in any of my recent posts. Just wanted to help the guy out, and possibly track down & fix any bugs on PJ64's end.