#1  
Old 26th April 2009, 07:18 PM
magmarock64 magmarock64 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 194
Question Why Emulation?

Hello there your not going to believe this, but I got refused service at a game store, quite literally for asking if there was a way to “legitimately play 360 games on a PC” When he asked why, I said because 360s are poorly built machines. With that he said poor choice of words, then hung up (more on that later). Similar encounters have led me to believe that emulators are somewhat controversial, and not everyone wants to here about them.
So to get a less biased (yes I know that’s debatable) response I’m asking you why you use emulators, as for me I’m a retro gamer which means new games piss me off especially ones with harsh DRM, and I like the idea of my old favorites being immortalized on PC. So what do you think about emulators?


Also please visit my “Please explain” thread I’m trying to become a more advance user

Last edited by magmarock64; 27th April 2009 at 08:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26th April 2009, 07:39 PM
HatCat's Avatar
HatCat HatCat is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my hat.
Posts: 16,236
Default

Since it was a service store one of the dealers probably worked with the hardware manufacturing and for that cause took offense, but those kinds of positions aren't necessarily familiar with emulators.

ya video game emulators are controversial

You know one thing I still don't get, is why emulators like Project64 are in public? Not that anyone cares. As of late various developers for other emulator projects are getting defensive against judgment. How can you serve to make people happy and defend yourself from judgment simultaneously? It's all hate to try to control what people think of you, and there's so much of the hateful centered around in what is done in vg emulation developers have been leaving and taking a hint.

Why should they have any respect, when it was their decision to prove arguing the physical righteousness to emulate what was so openly published to the consumer in further unbalancing the happiness from the creators of the games to the people who could already play them? They aren't that far from being deserved to be nagged; it's called karma people.

Still, a lot of them still want to please people, good for their cause. No matter what they do, quite a few people want to finish what they started, and in dealing with the users, I'll be happy to help that.
Then for the memories to joy, video game emulation serves a purpose. Scratch the legality; if you really want to make a legal emulator do something professional like emulate something not about games and entertainment; you won't raise heat over competition then. Be consistent.

Yes why don't you people try to emulate something that serves as an experiment to study the functions of the human mind? Rather than suffering in lack of conscious in that which isn't emulated

Last edited by HatCat; 26th April 2009 at 07:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27th April 2009, 07:37 AM
magmarock64 magmarock64 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 194
Default

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.



Oh by the way it was a games retail store like EB Games.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27th April 2009, 11:36 AM
CA5 CA5 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 201
Default

My reasons for using emulators are quite simple and not deep at all, unlike other things I do.

I simply can't be arsed to get my N64 out, I fear I might scratch it or something. With other emulators, such as GBA, it's cos I never really played many GBA games and missed the whole era. SNES/NES I really only play on my DS - I like the portability of it. If I ever use a DS emulator, it's usually experimental. For example, the first dump of GTA: Chinatown Wars didn't work on any flashcarts other than Acekard, but could be played on no$gba. We tried transferring the no$gba saves to flashcarts in the hope that they'd work, but they never did. So we then went on the patch the Arm7 with DSLazy, and I tried to patch both Arm7 & Arm9. Still didn't work.

Turns out I was closer than I thought, though. The first dump worked successfully on nearly every flashcart after an Arm9 patch was released - I just patched it in the wrong way (as in, replaced the Arm9 with another, incorrect one).

But yeah, I mainly use emulators out of laziness. Or sometimes, my Genesis / Master System crashes when played - so I use emulators as they never seem to fail me.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27th April 2009, 01:33 PM
squall_leonhart's Avatar
squall_leonhart squall_leonhart is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,917
Default

There is no way a Current PC of any kind will have any chance at emulating the 360.
__________________

CPU:Intel Xeon x5690 @ 4.2Ghz, Mainboard:Asus Rampage III Extreme, Memory:48GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Founders Edition, NVidia Geforce GTX 1060 Founders Edition
Monitor:ROG PG279Q, BenQ BL2211, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro
SDD:Crucial MX300 275, Crucial MX300 525, Crucial MX300 1000
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Phantom 820, PSU:Seasonic X-850, OS:Windows 7 SP1
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27th April 2009, 08:01 PM
magmarock64 magmarock64 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart View Post
There is no way a Current PC of any kind will have any chance at emulating the 360.
What I meant was, was Microsoft going to interrogate 360 games into windows 7, seems like the sort of thing they'd do.

As for no PC powerful enough to emulate the 360 that's not entirely true. There PCs that are that powerful, but very few people would be able to afford it.

What do you think about emulation Squall?

Last edited by magmarock64; 5th July 2009 at 01:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27th April 2009, 08:44 PM
Mdkcheatz's Avatar
Mdkcheatz Mdkcheatz is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Mr. Syrup
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: the Milky Way, I think...
Posts: 763
Cool I vote YES to emulators!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart View Post
There is no way a Current PC of any kind will have any chance at emulating the 360.
Well yes, but then again, if you are skilled in understand the 360's hardware, there may be a chance to implement actual xbox hardware components along with a current pc if done right. down side: what's the point of doing that? :S

To emulate xbox 360 via software mod would be nearly impossible at this stage. Playstation 2 just about found itself working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magmarock64 View Post
What I meant was, was Microsoft going to interrogate 360 games into windows 7, seems like the sort of thing they'd do.

As for no PC powerful enough to emulate the 360 that's not entirely true. There PCs that are that powerful, but very few people would be able to afford it. The 3D card alone would industrial grade and could cost up to $20.000 USD. I will see if I can a picture of one and post it on the forms just for fun.
I doubt MS will ever consider combining a PC and their xbox or equivalent EVER. That just has piracy written all over it :P

____

As for my opinion on emulation: I personally think emulation is brilliant. It allows you to store numerous games while saving a ton on physical space, also wear & tear. It is emulators that ultimately keep retro games alive as well.

Companies who benefit from consoles (Paypal, Gamestop, etc) from a sellers point of view, however , are the most likely candidates for rejecting the concept of emulators. Keep in mind that emulation causes big time piracy in the gaming industry. So there are substantial losses in both console and game sales due to people pirating.

My real argument is that emulators themselves are completely legal (unless they included a bios) and do not infringe on copyrights so therefore are technically just as respectable as tools that do not promote piracy. So it's almost more wrong to go after the emulator for blame on piracy and look further into rom sharing sources...

I'm not sure what the exact law is. I'm sure it varies dependant of location, but from the rumours I have seen online (same rumours from multiple sources) there is questioning in the legality of ripping your own roms providing that you own this game in its physical state. Rumour has it that you are allowed to "backup" one copy of a game, which from all the research I have done doesn't seem to violate any laws in general. But using an emulator to play the roms might in itself infringe on the user agreements... Keep in mind that either way, no matter what the law is, companies like Nintendo do not like people ripping roms or using an emulator to play them and will more likely than not try and make it seem to their favor and try and stop it to the best they can legally possible, what I am saying is that they will push this beyond what the laws are, so it's actually important to know your legalities that way you can avoid getting pushed around by Nintendo's numerous lawyer wizards who are likely to crush you no matter what.... (unless of course you think you can hire more just as brainy lawyers than Nintendo or competitor)
__________________
The World is burning...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28th April 2009, 12:21 AM
HatCat's Avatar
HatCat HatCat is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my hat.
Posts: 16,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magmarock64 View Post
As for no PC powerful enough to emulate the 360 that's not entirely true. There PCs that are that powerful, but very few people would be able to afford it. The 3D card alone would industrial grade and could cost up to $20.000 USD.
nope
You know in the public scene, Xbox emulation is already dead, with less then ten games functional. Speed becomes an issue if one of those games has like, nonzero speed, due to major hardware differences. Technically it isn't even about speed, speed is just an observation due to it not being physically possible without ungiven hardware documentation and reverse engineering to accurately emulate it. Not only is it slow and inaccurate, it's incomplete and non-optimal.
Xbox 360 is out of the question.

So basically it's not about "power", and price from $20 grand to infinity in either direction also doesn't directly relate to the knowledge and reverse research required.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 28th April 2009, 02:16 PM
magmarock64 magmarock64 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 194
Exclamation Multi Quote Hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdkcheatz View Post
I doubt MS will ever consider combining a PC and their xbox or equivalent EVER. That just has piracy written all over it :P
You know What else has piracy written all over it? allowing the use of external hard drives on your console.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdkcheatz View Post
Companies who benefit from consoles (Paypal, Gamestop, etc) from a sellers point of view, however , are the most likely candidates for rejecting the concept of emulators. Keep in mind that emulation causes big time piracy in the gaming industry. So there are substantial losses in both console and game sales due to people pirating.
Emulation piracy isn't that bad because it doesn't start until a console is about 10 years old, They are no longer making money from it, so whats the big deal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdkcheatz View Post
I'm not sure what the exact law is. I'm sure it varies dependant of location, but from the rumours I have seen online (same rumours from multiple sources) there is questioning in the legality of ripping your own roms providing that you own this game in its physical state. Rumour has it that you are allowed to "backup" one copy of a game, which from all the research I have done doesn't seem to violate any laws in general. But using an emulator to play the roms might in itself infringe on the user agreements... Keep in mind that either way, no matter what the law is, companies like Nintendo do not like people ripping roms or using an emulator to play them and will more likely than not try and make it seem to their favor and try and stop it to the best they can legally possible, what I am saying is that they will push this beyond what the laws are, so it's actually important to know your legalities that way you can avoid getting pushed around by Nintendo's numerous lawyer wizards who are likely to crush you no matter what.... (unless of course you think you can hire more just as brainy lawyers than Nintendo or competitor)
Yes big companies like Nintendo don't like emulators, until they start making money for them I am of course referring to the wii virtual console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rswedlow View Post
nope
You know in the public scene, Xbox emulation is already dead, with less then ten games functional. Speed becomes an issue if one of those games has like, nonzero speed, due to major hardware differences. Technically it isn't even about speed, speed is just an observation due to it not being physically possible without ungiven hardware documentation and reverse engineering to accurately emulate it. Not only is it slow and inaccurate, it's incomplete and non-optimal.
Xbox 360 is out of the question.
Yes I'm with you I don't think MS will emulate the 360. My point is that I was refused service, and when I went in the store to talk things over (and believe me I was polite) I was threatened with security. This is how offensive emulators can be to certain people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rswedlow View Post
So basically it's not about "power", and price from $20 grand to infinity in either direction also doesn't directly relate to the knowledge and reverse research required.
Oops! I meant to say from $2.000 onwards man do I feel stupid
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 28th April 2009, 02:26 PM
Mdkcheatz's Avatar
Mdkcheatz Mdkcheatz is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Mr. Syrup
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: the Milky Way, I think...
Posts: 763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magmarock64 View Post
Emulation piracy isn't that bad because it doesn't start until a console is about 10 years old, They are no longer making money from it, so whats the big deal?
Look at DS emulation and R4 devices :P

Nintnendo are still making tons of money from the Nintendo ds, and people are able to pirate roms either via emu or R4.... Also look at this, now Wii emu works (Dolphin) and and if that keeps up then who knows how long it'll take.
__________________
The World is burning...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.