Go Back   Project64 Forums > General Discussion > Open Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12th May 2015, 09:28 PM
zike zike is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8
Smile IYO: How do you feel about the future of N64 emulation?

It's exciting to see that PJ64 has gone open and is still getting actively developed. N64 emulation had been stagnant for so long, that it seemed people were just fine with just being able to play games, regardless of the level of glitches, crashes etc.

PJ64 2.2 is a much welcomed release, but I can't help feel underwhelmed. It still has a number of bugs remaining, unimplemented features, strange crashes and freezes, and some unfortunate regressions in compatibility here and there. But given the plugin architecture I can imagine the challenges involved.

There are only two emulators out there with any real usability - PJ64 and M64P, and both are strikingly similar, to the point of having the same polygon bug in Donkey Kong 64, as well as using similar plugins. (Glide64/ GLideN64 )

What are some of the major challenges being worked on in PJ64 and how do you see PJ64's progress in the future?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12th May 2015, 11:43 PM
theboy181's Avatar
theboy181 theboy181 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prince Rupert,British Columbia Canada
Posts: 424
Default

I find most of your observations to be incorrect. I am unsue what you mean by open.

N64 emulation has been worked on by some one or another over the last decade and we have seen vast improvements over the years. I don't have to put up with many bugs in the majority of the games. Can you give any examples?
__________________
Book recommendation!
https://www.amazon.com/All-Cats-Have.../dp/1843104814
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13th May 2015, 12:23 AM
RPGMaster's Avatar
RPGMaster RPGMaster is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,008
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
There are only two emulators out there with any real usability - PJ64 and M64P, and both are strikingly similar
I can't even take this post seriously
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13th May 2015, 12:55 AM
Ambient_Malice Ambient_Malice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 179
Default

PJ64 2.2 was IMO an unwise release. Too much was broken. Hopefully 2.3 will set things right.

N64 emulation is improving. But a lot of the improvements are still WIP. As for DK64, the polygon tearing should be 100% fixed by 2.3, since PJ64 is moving to dynamic Fixed Audio Timing.

Part of the problem has been a lack of communication and cooperation.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13th May 2015, 01:20 AM
RPGMaster's Avatar
RPGMaster RPGMaster is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,008
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambient_Malice View Post
PJ64 2.2 was IMO an unwise release. Too much was broken. Hopefully 2.3 will set things right.
How was it unwise? It's certainly better than 2.1. Imo 2.2 is the best version of PJ64. It was certainly rushed, but I still like it .
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13th May 2015, 02:15 AM
dsx_ dsx_ is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,105
Default

the best version of pj64 is 1.0
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13th May 2015, 04:25 AM
zike zike is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theboy181 View Post
I find most of your observations to be incorrect. I am unsue what you mean by open.

N64 emulation has been worked on by some one or another over the last decade and we have seen vast improvements over the years. I don't have to put up with many bugs in the majority of the games. Can you give any examples?
Open as in the source is on GitHub and other developers can help improve the code.

What's wrong with my observations? From my experience PJ64 1.6 - 2.2 all have strange crashes and errors. I get errors like "Cannot write file", "Breakpoint found", "Fatal Error: stopping emulation", among others during normal operation of the emulator. I've had the emulator freeze and crash just by pressing "End Emulation". Sometimes after an error occurs, I can't even do anything except close it.

Many games have graphical glitches and some games don't run or have game-breaking bugs (Indiana Jones, Snap). A lot of debugger functions are unimplemented. The cheat system has bugs where cheats aren't being accessed/saved properly. Another issue I've found is that many games have sound sync issues that aren't always fixed by forcing the sync in the audio plugin. Turning the frame limiter on/off can cause bugs in the program itself (happened tons of times playing Turok: Dinosaur Hunter). I've experienced a ton of issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGMaster View Post
I can't even take this post seriously
I am just interested in where N64 development is going. If it bothers you that I only see two usable N64 emulators with similar dynarec's and graphic plugins.. you could at least explain?. I thought it was crazy that both mupen64plus and pj64 has the same warp bug in dk64. Definitely gave me the impression that they worked in similar ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambient_Malice View Post
PJ64 2.2 was IMO an unwise release. Too much was broken. Hopefully 2.3 will set things right.

N64 emulation is improving. But a lot of the improvements are still WIP. As for DK64, the polygon tearing should be 100% fixed by 2.3, since PJ64 is moving to dynamic Fixed Audio Timing.

Part of the problem has been a lack of communication and cooperation.
Thing is, it can take a lot of for a codebase to become stable. I get the impression that 2.2 was more of a anniversary release showing that development is still active and whatnot. Still a lot of bug fixes over 2.1.

There's only so much you can do by flipping around RDB settings. It'd be cool to see some sort of roadmap to see where development is heading - what major things need to be fixed and whatnot, get developers interested. Also there's like no up to date compatibility list - that would be an asset for keeping track of things.

Question: Is the source of Jabo D3D8 plugin lost to time? That is a bit worrying since a lot of things would be delegated to the video plugin and limit what can be fixed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13th May 2015, 05:12 AM
Ambient_Malice Ambient_Malice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
Many games have graphical glitches and some games don't run or have game-breaking bugs (Indiana Jones, Snap).
Pokemon Snap's problem is that only software renderers offer accurate colour buffer emulation. It works with Angrylion's (painfully slow), and partially with Jabo's 1.7, which offers a half-working software renderer. My hope is that GLideN64 can fix this problem, even if it means resorting to a cheap and nasty HLE software rendering mode. As for Indiana Jones, that game is almost fully playable in PJ64 using Ziggy's LLE plugin and HatCat's RSP interpreter. GLideN64 has an LLE mode, meaning that if it can be optimised and the bugs fixed, PJ64 will be able to run the game out of the box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjlR3Sa5x5w

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
I am just interested in where N64 development is going. If it bothers you that I only see two usable N64 emulators with similar dynarec's and graphic plugins.. you could at least explain?.
I assume he's referring to the existence of 1964.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
I thought it was crazy that both mupen64plus and pj64 has the same warp bug in dk64. Definitely gave me the impression that they worked in similar ways.
The reason for this is N64 emulators have traditionally had sloppy audio timing. Most of DK64's problems are timing related. I haven't tested DK64 enough using the new Fixed Audio Timing settings to determine whether that bug has been fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
It'd be cool to see some sort of roadmap to see where development is heading - what major things need to be fixed and whatnot, get developers interested.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
Also there's like no up to date compatibility list - that would be an asset for keeping track of things.
The plan is to establish a PJ64 wiki, similar to how Dolphin and PCSX2 operate, I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
Question: Is the source of Jabo D3D8 plugin lost to time? That is a bit worrying since a lot of things would be delegated to the video plugin and limit what can be fixed.
Only Jabo has ever had access to the source code for his plugins. He has shown no indication he'll open source them. It isn't all that important since his work is being replaced. Glide64 or GLideN64 for video, and Azimer's for audio. IMO, the bad repution of N64 emulation is partially due to plugins such as Jabo's and Rice. The N64 is a console filled with games that use framebuffer effects heavily, and neither of those plugins have adequate framebuffer support.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13th May 2015, 05:38 AM
RPGMaster's Avatar
RPGMaster RPGMaster is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,008
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
A lot of debugger functions are unimplemented.
I do wish they were implemented. There are other emulators with good debuggers though, like Nemu64 .
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
The cheat system has bugs where cheats aren't being accessed/saved properly.
I don't think I'm aware of this issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
Another issue I've found is that many games have sound sync issues that aren't always fixed by forcing the sync in the audio plugin.
Considering sound emulation is usually done in the audio plugin, you just have to pick the right plugin . Some people have this issue against using different plugins, but it's not a big deal since the emulator has a per-game plugin setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
Turning the frame limiter on/off can cause bugs in the program itself (happened tons of times playing Turok: Dinosaur Hunter). I've experienced a ton of issues.
Never heard of this problem either tbh. Can you elaborate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
I am just interested in where N64 development is going. If it bothers you that I only see two usable N64 emulators with similar dynarec's and graphic plugins.. you could at least explain?. I thought it was crazy that both mupen64plus and pj64 has the same warp bug in dk64. Definitely gave me the impression that they worked in similar ways.
I just don't like when people heavily criticize N64 emulation while underestimating what has been done. There are other good emulators out there. 1964 is a good one and I still use Nemu64 sometimes. In fact, Nemu64 is what brought back my interest in N64 emulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
Thing is, it can take a lot of for a codebase to become stable. I get the impression that 2.2 was more of a anniversary release showing that development is still active and whatnot. Still a lot of bug fixes over 2.1.
Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikey View Post
Also there's like no up to date compatibility list - that would be an asset for keeping track of things.
Need more testers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambient_Malice View Post
The reason for this is N64 emulators have traditionally had sloppy audio timing. Most of DK64's problems are timing related. I haven't tested DK64 enough using the new Fixed Audio Timing settings to determine whether that bug has been fixed.
Most games I've tested seem fine to me. Sure some games have timing issues, but I don't think many do. Not noticeable ones anyway.

Last edited by RPGMaster; 13th May 2015 at 10:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13th May 2015, 06:11 AM
theboy181's Avatar
theboy181 theboy181 is offline
Alpha Tester
Project Supporter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Prince Rupert,British Columbia Canada
Posts: 424
Default

To answer the OP's original question about the future of Nintedo 64 emulation. I FEEL GOOD!
__________________
Book recommendation!
https://www.amazon.com/All-Cats-Have.../dp/1843104814
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.